tell me what you belive about the sabath

im totally confused. its a command to keep it holy. is that for us or iwsreal? is it sat or sun?

 

Yes, there was a command to keep it holy. The 10 commandments are the words of the old covenant according to the Bible. The new covenant commands us to put aside the old covenant and follow the Spirit. See 2 Corinthians 3.

Christians were never given the old covenant to follow. The old covenant was only given to the Jews. I'm sorry some have confused you with this. Sunday was never the Sabbath. The Sabbath according to Hebrews 4 is today - everyday. Everyday we are to put aside our works. Everyday we are to put aside our striving to be good enough for God. Everyday we are to rest in Him. Everyday we are to rest in His salvation. The Sabbath of the old covenant was a type and shadow of the rest we have in Jesus. See Colossians 2.

If you have more questions please let me know. I was a Sabbatarian for nearly 30 years.

Please see my post here if you want more info http://new-creation-in-christ.com/?p=1

 

Different people have different views on this. I've heard some say that this is the only commandment that Jesus did not affirm so the Sabbath principle no longer applies. Others (Seventh Day Adventists, for example) take the commandment very seriously. In our case, we treat Sundays differently but we don't go overboard - so I suppose we're somewhere in the middle.

As far as I'm concerned, every day is special, every day belongs to the Lord, and every day is dedicated to him. Just like I dislike the modern-day practice of tithes because it leads us to believe that 90%, or whatever, of our income is "ours", I dislike the idea that Sunday is the Lord's and every other day is "ours".

 

Just because it was part of the Old Covenant doesn't mean we can totally ignore it! Christ did not do away with the Law, but fulfilled it. Obviously, it was important enough for God to include it in the 10 Commandments!

But to what extent are we to follow it? That I honestly can't answer. Are those who chose to keep Sunday "holy" sinning because it's not Saturday? But how many really keep Sunday holy? My church doesn't even meet on Sunday, but on Saturday night (because we'er a "mission church", and the neighborhood people don't get up on Sunday AM. They WILL come on Saturday night instead.) But I honestly can't say I keep Saturday OR Sunday "holy".

 

Yes, Christ did not do away with the law He fulfilled it. Anyone is free to put themselves under the law. It is still there. But Christians are not under the old covenant law. See the entire book of Galatians. Such as

Galatians 3 "23But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor."

The 10 commandments were very important. They were the very words of the old covenant. Deut 4 says "12 Then the LORD spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice. 13 He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets."

2 Corinthians 3 comes right out and says that the 10 commandments were glorious, but have come to have no glory at all because of what we have now. What we have now far exceeds the old covenant. We have the Holy Spirit.

The giving of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost happened on the anniversary of the giving of the law at Sinai. 3000 people died when the law was given. 3000 people were saved when the Holy Spirit was given. The letter kills and the Spirit brings life.

 

ok, i have 3 totally diff views, lol. that is what i was afraid of i guess i have diff ideas, but dont really have anything to base my opinions on biblically, just going by how i was brought up. i thought that sat was the jewish sabath, but since we believed Jesus was the messiah, and God's son, that we celebrated on Sunday, which would have been the day he was raised from the dead?? am i totally off?? i could be totally confused right now. i also dont believe that sunday being the sabbath should be a rirualistic legalistic day. but a day that we make for resting in, and worshipping, and concentration on Christ. all days are His, and should be that way. but the sabbath should be a more concentrated day, if that makes any sense. I believe that Jesus fulfilled the old law and we no longer are held by those laws to save us, but i also believe we should still be following the commandments. i read somewhere that the jewish rabbis believe the ten commandments were meant only for the jews and the noah laws, there were 7, were meant for the gentiles? these did not include the sabbath. i had never even heard of the laws around Noah, until i started looking into all this. i wish that i could make sunday, which is the day we worship at church, more like what i picture as the sabbath day. reading the bible and worshippin him ALL day. resting in him, not doing things around the house and going to ball games and such, but really focusing on Christ and starting that week off right. i just didnt realize there was so much contradiction in this idea. i guess i really need to do some more researching in my bible to see what God would say about this. i mean i try to picture him, and how he would respond to this. i cant see him saying "no, please dont make a day of your week focus only on me, bc they are all supposed to be about me" i mean we cant all rest all week long, there are too many things to do. the jewish tradition was that the day before the sabbath was a day of preparation. they did all the cleaning, chores, cooking, etc, in order to have the sabbath be restful. so any more thoughts?? i find this interesting and appreciate having people to bounce the ideas off of.

 

One of the most important and influential principles I ever learned came from a dear friend and mentor of mine who, sadly, passed away several years ago. He impressed on me the idea that the Old Testament law is not so much a prescription for living as it is a description of a person. This point was made eloquently in the writings of Stanley Jones, an American missionary to India in the early 20th century.

For me, this is a staggeringly important point: the law describes God. For example, when we read that we're not to bear false witness, it means that God will not lie to us. This in turn means that he will keep his covenants. (It also means we can trust the scientific evidence around us, but that's another matter.) When we read that we are to honor our father and mother, this describes God: Jesus the Son will always honor God the Father.

This principle brings a whole new meaning to Jesus' statement that he came not to do away with the law but to fulfill it. In other words, whereas the law was a pointillist image of God, Jesus was the complete picture. Whereas we can see God only in part through the law, we can see much more of him in the person of Jesus. In a very real sense, when we obey the law, we are more like Jesus. Even more so, when we emulate Christ in all our ways, we are even closer to the purpose of the law.

In this light, how can we interpret the commandment about keeping the Sabbath holy (which is a word that really means 'apart')?

 

The early church met together on Sunday to celebrate the resurrection. In early church writings it is referred to as the Lord's Day. Many early Christians also met on Saturday. Many early Christians were Jews. Paul would often go to the synagogue on Saturday and preach.

Why do you believe we should be following them? The old covenant law that was fulfulled was not limited to 10 commands, but 613 commands. I realize many today believe the 10 commandments are special and needed for the Christian, but I don't see that in the Bible.

As a Sabbatarian for nearly 30 years I can share my experience. What I found is that many "focusing on Him things" are saved for the one day. So when something came up during the week I made sure I did the secular things before the Sabbath and I saved the extra things for the Sabbath. In other words, it didn't make me have more time with Him. It just clumped it all together. I did the day of preparation thing too. Part of the rest of the Sabbath was getting all the housework done so I could relax.

But those things can be done without the Sabbath. You can get all the housework done and rest the next day. You can choose to spend any day focusing on Him. You are certainly free to set aside one day a week, but I would guard against what I experienced. All my family are still Sabbatarians and most people I know from childhood. They have the pattern where they run themselves ragged for six days and crash on the seventh. So I guess I'm saying that this idea that having one day to rest may not be the idealized view you may think.

I much prefer my "every day alike" life to my "one day special" life. My life is much more balanced.

 

I think we would emulate Christ more if we follow His command to agape love one another. The moral principles found in the old covenant are found as commands in the new covenant. The Sabbath is not a moral principal. The 10 commandments were part of the entire law. Going part to part of the law for moral principles can be confusing because the law itself condemns us. Apage love goes far beyond a command to not steal. In Matthew 5 Jesus refered to the old covenant law as "You have heard that it was said" and then goes on to say "But I say" when talking about the way of agape love.

 

Jesus said, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath." He healed on the Sabbath. He and the twelve were hungry and rubbed grain between their hands so they could eat it. All this was considered "work" by the Pharisees, so Jesus told them the truth of it. All those tiny little nitpicky rules of theirs, like how far you could walk on the Sabbath, what kind of a knot you could tie on the Sabbath... all those were silly. Tying a knot or not tying a knot should not be considered "sinful" if the knot needed to be tied! If your ox is in a ditch, don't you get it out rather than let it die in a ditch for nothing just because it's a certain day of the week?

The Judaizers wanted all new Christians to become Jews first, become circumcized and follow all the laws. But Paul -- who was a pretty strict Jew, you know -- said that no, that wasn't necessary. Why make them keep to the Law that we ourselves cannot keep? Much better just to "hit the high points" like not consuming blood or sacrificing to idols, and to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ in Whom is real salvation.

The new Christians started meeting together on the first day of the week. Most were Jews who did not stop being Jews (they were just Jews who were saved by faith in the Messiah), so they kept going to the synagogue on Saturday and met together with other Christians on the first day of the week. I don't think the Bible tells us this specifically, but I imagine that they met, worshipped, then went on about their usual First Day business, or met and worshipped in the early evening after the usual First Day business was done. The Bible does say that they shared communal meals, which presumably was in the evening. But many were also Gentiles, who did not have to keep the Sabbath in the first place and may or may not have had the concept of a "special worship day", so their worship day became the first day of the week. As Christianity spread, this practice of meeting together on the First Day was continued, as it does until now.

 

wow, that is alot to digest. i guess i never really thought about it that indepth. why should we keep the commandments? i guess i was just brought up that way. i really need to do some more reading in my bible. thank you for all the thoughts. i will be praying on all of it. i guess i see what you are saying about shoving all of the secular stuff into the 6 days and being worn out by the 7th. i agree totally about the ox in the ditch metaphor. good way to look at it. ok, any other thoughts?

 

First of all, Embassy, you've mentioned twice that you were a Sabatarian. Sorry, I have never heard that term before! I'm making an educated guess about what exactly that is, but would you mind defining it for me? Thanks!

Yes, I believe that the Pharasees took the Sabath to an extreme. But our culture seems to have taken it to the other extreme. Just like the Law can become very legalistic, so can Grace become an excuse to do whatever you want. Both extremes are wrong.

We CANNOT just completely disregard the Law. Take the Commandment against adultry. How many of us would say that, since we're no longer under the Law, it's OK to murder? Well, of course not, but it's also against the laws of the State, and the laws against breaking the Sabbath went off the books LONG ago. OK, what about adultry? Our country doesn't have a law against that, so is it OK? Unfortunately, there's plenty in this country that says yes. But it is STILL wrong in the sight of the Lord. Will God forgive us if we chose to break this commandment? Yes. But there WILL be natural consequences.

The point I'm making (not very well, I'm afraid!) is that I don't think we can just disregard this by saying we're under the New Covenant. As for what DAY, I'm not sure it really matters if it's Sunday or Saturday. God judges the HEART of a person.

 

This was because the people were being taught "over and above" what was in the law, and Jesus was clarifying the written word in light of the morass of details added by the Pharisees and others.

If you go to Israel today, some communities have a little wire around their circumference; should someone step over that wire on Shabbat, they are deemed to be traveling and hence breaking the law. This is an example of something added.

 

jackie, i think we fall on the same side of the issue here, and i just dont know exactly how they want us to biblically defend it. but i have another online friend who falls on the the issue as embassy, so im not really sure exactly, ive heard of the sabbartarian thing, but dont know what it is.

 

The commandments are a reflection of the person of God. Jesus is a more full manifestation of God. We are called to be Christ-like. To be more specific, Jesus called us to be perfect (i.e., mature) as our heavenly Father is perfect. Peter wrote that we are to be holy (i.e., apart) as our heavenly Father is holy. This is turn means we should strive to follow the commandments, because they reflect the person of God.

All this is to say that the commandments still apply, although we can interpret them more fully since God manifested himself more fully in the person of Jesus. "What would Jesus do?" is actually a very relevant phrase.

Thinking more about my own question from before, we know that Jesus stated the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. In other words, the Sabbath is there to support and help us, not to be our master. What did God do after creating our universe? He sat back and saw it was good and enjoyed it all. We can do the same, right? We can sit back and enjoy our many blessings and wonder at the mystery and majesty of the person who created it all. Without such a day, we'd forever be working and forgetting to "smell the roses".

 

It is a person who observes Saturday as the Sabbath as the Jews.

You are discussing the moral principles in the law. The Sabbath is a ceremony. Leviticus calls it a feast. The New Testament says that with the change in priesthood there is also a necessary change in the law. (Hebrews 7). You don't need the 10 commandments to know that adultery or murder is wrong. Christians have the command to agape love one another. A Christian's minimum is not stopping yourself from adultery but not even looking at someone in lust. A Christian's minimum is not only preventing yourself from murder, but acting in love to those who do you wrong. It is a whole different set-up. We aren't even commanded to love God in the new covenant. We love Him because He first loved us.


I think Romans 14 speaks to this whole issue "5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord."

 

Sounds pretty similar to:

Exodus 16 "29 Bear in mind that the LORD has given you the Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day he gives you bread for two days. Everyone is to stay where he is on the seventh day; no one is to go out." 30 So the people rested on the seventh day."


Exodus 31 "'Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people. 15 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death. 16 The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant."

Numbers 15 " 32 While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp."

 

As someone who has been without such a day for 10 years now I must say I find more time to smell the roses. I get to smell them everyday:angel: I must say that discovering Jesus as the fulfillment of the Sabbath of the old covenant has been life changing for me. Radically life changing with positives and negatives. One of the positives is enjoying the freedom to celebrate the Sabbath everyday. By this I am not referring to stopping from work, but stopping from trying to be righteous. The man who picked up sticks under the old covenant Sabbath was put to death. Why? Because salvation is by grace through faith alone and not by works. Resting in Jesus and stopping from trying to earn our salvation or keep our salvation by our works is what the Sabbath foreshadowed. No works could be tolerated under the old covenant Sabbath because the fulfilled Sabbath rest in Christ is not attained or kept by works.

 

The giving of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost happened on the anniversary of the giving of the law at Sinai. 3000 people died when the law was given. 3000 people were saved when the Holy Spirit was given. The letter kills and the Spirit brings life.

It also occurred to me when reading this, that when He gave the Law, God wrote it ON stone. At Pentecost, the Spirit spoke BY a "stone" (Petros, Peter).

 

My pastor recently touched on why we worship on Sunday...
In the Old Testament, work came first, but in the New Testament, the Work is finished, so worship now comes first.