R&S takes forever if you do everything every day. If you adapt it to meet your needs, it won't take near as long. I usually spend about 10 or 15 minutes per kid, and then they have another 20 to 45 minutes on their own. Unless it's a review lesson, in which I give them two days to do it. I tell them they can do it all in one day, or divide it up. Just so it's done when I'm ready to do Language in two days. We spent 1.5 years on CGC. Lots of tedious cut-and-paste (which I often enlarged to make it easier!), but it IS a good curriculum and the info does stick with you.
At fourth grade level, R&S doesn't take all that long -- we can do a lot orally, and there are worksheets you can do instead of writing everything out in a notebook. It may take 40 minutes to do a lesson, with maybe half that time doing the oral part and reviewing. He seldom has Engilsh that's given as homework for not getting done in class. And I've never used a timer all day before this year -- this one kid, and one other who's been with me long enough to know the routine but just is a classic time-waster, these two need to be kept on a short leash in order to get anything done. The other three are perfectly free to choose which thing to do when and how long, and are happy with themselves when they get done everything on my list....
But we're NOT at home -- these are OPKs, and way more "individualized private school" than homeschool. When we homeschooled DS, there was lots (tons! to the point that other people thought he wasn't "doing school" of any kind because he was "out and about" so much!) of "discover on your own", "read about what you're interested in", and stuff. These OPKs come out of public school -- they and their parents expect grades and homework and such, because most of them plan to use us as a "booster" to get them back up to speed to go back to public school. Most of the ps'ers have gotten so conditioned to "don't do anything until I tell you", "wait to be told", "I'm going to tell you everything you need to know, so don't bother reading your book until I've told you," and if you wait long enough, it'll go away -- you'll get an F, but you'll get tons of chances to bring that up with "extra credit" and "dropping the lowest grade" and all that kind of stuff. They don't know how to do anything for themselves. They don't know how to "go do this and then we'll go over it together" because at ps, it's "we'll do this in class, but whatever you don't finish is homework" so they play the rest of the period -- look busy but don't finish and you take it home and either mom helps you or you just don't do it because you're going to go over it again in class tomorrow so you can do it then. This one kid is just taking much longer to catch on to how we work than most....
I remember schooling my son in 5th grade (just a few years ago) and I would have to say he is just bored. Not that he is too smart for it but it just doesn't peak his interest. It's really hard to get good grades on something that you have no desire to learn. I had to make school creative for my son. The typical sit at a desk textbook type work only worked for a few subjects like math. Others I had to be creative. He couldn't remain in his seat just doing or I did get that glazed over look. I know that in your situation it would be hard to teach differently being that you have multiple students but this may just be his learning style.
I'm beginning to think that he may be ADD (without hyperactivity). You know, the daydreamer who just spaces out every so often, but isn't hyper or impulsive ordinarily. His mom said he was a slow worker when she signed him up. Today I checked his work in the workbook studyguide I gave him for history. It was all done, just some wrong answers, which we corrected today. He'll do a quiz on this much of it tomorrow and we'll see. I'm hopeful. BUT! he had spelling homework (two pages in an ACE Pace) -- and I saw him with it in his hand before he left -- but I found it on the floor after he was gone. I'll bet he does his science, though. He just made a 90 on his first quiz in this chapter. But last chapter, he made 100, 70, and 30 on his three quizzes -- and had to do a "second chance test" for the chapter test because he bombed the first one so badly. I hope this chapter doesn't follow the same pattern.
okay reading through this it is getting longer and longer lol, im on page four at the bottom, but he sounds a lot like the boy we are tutoring ( dd and I, mosty going to be her wiht my suggestions and support) he does the work wrong in school sits there with dd or I and we just tell him they are wrong, suggest the method to use and he poofs out the correct answers. His teacher is talking of holding him back in 4th, but we are working with him to get him up to grade level. Personally once you get him focused he does great work, but he likes to day dream and talk about other things... Dd is great at working with him I kind of observe how he is ding things... with dd there looking at other things even, he wrote out three paragraph sized answers for three chapters of a book. DD was told he needed three sentences for the whole book. There were a few mistakes but he fixed them when she circled or errased the problem he figured the right way to spelll, write etc. I think from reading this that 9-10 yr old boys are like this? I agree with the people who are saying get a motivation thing going. He needs a reason to perform.
If he didn't pass the LEAP in 4th grade and they have record of it on file, he will have to take the LEAP and pass it to be put in any grade higher than 4th grade.
If he didn't pass the LEAP in 4th grade and they have record of it on file, he will have to take the LEAP and pass it to be put in any grade higher than 4th grade. Actually, no, not here. If you're coming from out of the country, out of state, from homeschool, or from a nonapproved private school like mine, the public school will test you, but will give some alternate test, depending on the district's choice and the grade level you're planning to enroll in, and what time of year it is. I've had fourth graders before come and do their fifth grade year with me, then go back to public and test into the sixth grade. Some pass sixth grade at the end of the year, and some don't. At our local school, they have used some Woodcock test or other. Not a Woodcock-Johnson, but Woodcock and somebody else. If you plan to enter fifth or ninth, you're supposed to take and pass the iLEAP, but if you show up to enroll on the first day of school, they do this alternate kind of test. I've even had one of my students go back to public and take this alternate kind of test, whatever it is, and be placed in tenth grade with credits for some ninth grade classes. I know a homeschooler who had done Abeka video program who wanted to enroll in public for his senior year, so he could do some clubs and stuff, but the school wouldn't accept his out-of-state credits and insisted he'd have to take "final exams" for all previous credits he claimed (English I, II, Algebra, Geometry, Algebra II, World Geography, etc. etc. etc.) so he figured it wasn't worth it and graduated at home. BTW, this kid should have stayed in public and repeated fourth grade. He is so not handling my fifth grade stuff except spelling. He's doing fourth grade Bible, reading, English, and math, and was attempting fifth grade science and history/geography. Not doing well.
Lindina, I've read all of the posts, and I think that by this time the posters are probably scratching their heads as much as you are. I know you have nixed the idea of ADD/ADHD, but it DOES sound like true ADD to me - Attention Deficit without the hyperactivity. There is a kind of ADD that is strictly distractibility. This seems close to what this child acts like. The reason I say this is because I've dealt with it for 35 years with my ex-dh and my son. They both have that type of ADD. The timers worked for him, but he had to learn to use them. I had to use them for an extended period of time before he understood that they were not going away and that he was NOT going to get out of doing his work by ignoring the timer. I combined them with a reward/unreward system similar to the MARBLE system. I put a little square of paper in a jar (or penny or whatever) for each task accomplished by end of set timer, and took one out for each one not accomplished. As slips accumulated he could turn the slips in for "rewards" that I kept in a box in the school room - little trinkets and treats. I set the timer for no more than 15 minutes at age 10, very, very gradually increasing it so by high school he could do a whole subject on his own without a timer. I wouldn't discount that he may have a high intelligence just because he has not learned through school system. My son has an extremely high IQ(in fact, higher than is father or myself or either of his sisters who all have very high IQs) but he dropped out of school after his sophomore year. With ADD, things look different to them. They actually process information differently than we do. It is actually considered a VERY mild form of autism these days. I'm not sure I agree 100% with that, but it does come close in many aspects. Many people who had ADD/ADHD in olden days were school drop-outs or ne'er do wells. Including Einstein, Beethoven and hundreds of others. Also, a very low dose of Ritalin helped my son tremendously. I would discuss this course with his mom: Take the boy to a doctor and discuss what your and her concerns are. Tell them how he acts, including the story above. They may send him to a psychologist for evaluation. BE SURE they use a psychologist who does clinical testing, not the psychological ones!!! Clinical testing will show an abnormality in one session. My doctor then tried him on the Ritalin, and it worked! We were back to a somewhat normal life! The psychologist who wanted to start with psychological testing wanted to look for abuse, sexual abuse, etc, etc and wasn't even looking for ADD. I did not want to put my son through all of that when I knew there was no such thing and we wanted him evaluated for ADD!!! Of course, her way would have taken weeks and weeks of psych testing vs. one visit....lol. Who came out ahead there? Be firm with the doctor. Unless you suspect any kind of abuse, then I surely see no reason to subject children to that testing week after week. \ These are only my opinions and suggestions based on what I have lived. I hope they help a little bit, perhaps. Here is a link for a list of ADD and ADHD symptoms to check for. Both for just the inattention and for hyperactivity(which it sounds like he does not have). Check the symptom list. http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/621.html The rest of the site has a LOT of information, including more sites that talk about the symptoms of ADD. Good luck with this child! Hope this has helped even a little!
Thanks, Countrygal. Actually, I worked in the special ed department for twenty years as a school social worker. Now that I've gotten to know this kid somewhat better, I'm beginning to think that he may actually have ADD without hyperactivity. Maybe. I've begun to think too, that coming from public school, he's just not ready to do "real" fifth grade work. He's in my fourth grade materials for Bible, Reading, English, Math, and not doing terribly well with those but mostly passing. He's in fifth grade for spelling, science, and history, and is passing spelling but not either of the other two. He definitely seems to be lacking (but not like an LD) in reading comprehension... in all subjects. He IS learning English, just slowly, but he's making better sentences now than he was at the beginning, and his cursive handwriting is coming along. He failed the second chapter test in science (he failed the first one too), so I decided to try a different publisher and see if that made any difference -- without him seeing the cover of the books, I showed him a random page in a fourth grade book and a random page in a fifth grade book and asked him which would he think he'd like better IF we were to change books. He chose the fifth grade book. By Thursday afternoon, he'd wasted enough time that it resulted in two quizzes and a unit test (3 different subjects) being scheduled for Friday. He didn't show up Friday. His mom talks a good show, but doesn't apparently do much about making him do his homework or helping him study, even when he's using workbooks that have the quizzes inside (not removable). His mom doesn't answer her cell phone when I call. I'm suspecting that she's going to do exactly like this friend of hers -- whose son was in and out of our school about five times in four years, who apparently doesn't parent very closely, and never actually finished paying me. I was leery when this new mom said who had recommended that she bring him to our school.... and I'm beginning to think my instincts were right. SO! What would you do about his quizzes/test? Do I make sure he does these first thing on Monday (assuming that he shows up) and fail (because I know he's not nearly going to study over the weekend)? Do I pick just the unit test to do and save the quizzes for Tuesday on the off-chance that he'll actually study Monday night? Do I give just the quizzes and save the unit test for Tuesday on the off-chance he'll study? Do I let him learn that if you're absent you get extra days without having to test, or do I try to teach him that life goes on and you're responsible for your work on the day you're back? Do I have a talk with his mom and tell her he'd be better off repeating fourth grade in public school since he's going back anyway? It's getting to where I'm really less and less willing to work with the kids whose parents are capable of helping their kids (this mom subs at the local schools) but just use our school to get around public school regs -- not because they think that the individualized approach in a Christian atmosphere is better, or because they want their kids to actually learn the subject matter. But just to avoid failing the grade so they can go back to public in "their real" grade. But God and I have this arrangement: He brings us the ones He wants, and we try to teach 'em something. So I have to keep trying, even though it's very discouraging. It's odd - days when he's absent, the other four seem to have a better day. I don't understand it because he's not a disruptive kid, he's cute and funny and respectful to us, and in general nice to be around. He just doesn't do his work or try very hard. I've tried making him sit by me or by DH, in the hopes that proximity would help keep him on task. I've tried putting him on my timer (whatever's not finished becomes homework) but apparently he doesn't "get it". I'm about to institute my reward system which usually becomes necessary in the second semester, but maybe we'll do it early. If you get 6/7 or 5/6 (depending on what courses the individual actually has) done in a given day, you get a sticker on your chart. At the end of the week, your name goes in the hat once for each sticker. There are one fewer prizes than there are kids (kind of like musical chairs -- one less). Then we have a drawing, and if your name gets picked, you get a prize card which names something like "15 minutes free time" or "15 minutes computer time" or "food" (which is actually 50c to spend at the pharmacy across the street for candy or chips or a soda). Sometimes I have had a "mercy" card which could be retained and used as needed when there was too much written homework, to get out of one subject of written homework - but only a couple of the five this year even have written homework, so.... But this year I've bought a couple of "treasure chests" from Oriental Trading, that I've been saving to use second semester, little toys and gags. I'm trying to find out how to determine what's fair in choosing "tiny toy" or "bigger toy" -- maybe the luck of the draw by which prize card they get? Maybe group the toys by type and assign a number to each type, to be drawn if they get a prize card? Not sure yet...
Sounds like a daydreamer to me. He can do the work, but he can't keep his mind to the task. As a daydreamer myself, I will tell you that, at his age, he can't just will himself to stay focused; he needs strategies to help him. My strategy would be to shorten things to fit into ten to fifteen minute segments. Ironically, a daydreamer can travel around the world in forty-five minutes but will get lost doing thirty math problems. This may mean doing five to ten math problems --stand, stretch, touch your toes, turn around, sit down--and do fifteen minutes of reading -- stand stretch, touch his toes, turn around, sit down-- and do ten grammar problems. Then take a five or ten minute break to run outside, play a game or get a snack. Another technique is to periodically place your hand on the student's shoulder to kind of bring him back to this world. If breaking things into smaller segments is unappealing, just setting the timer to jar him away every fifteen minutes might be enough. If he gets lost in thought, the buzzer will bring him out of it, and he can start again.
Hmmmm. Now that you mention it, he doesn't seem to hsve as much difficulty staying on task with math or spelling.... the two things he's not doing so badly in. Or Engilsh, which has fairly short assignments.
That was the timer idea.... 10 to 15 min spans. Also, I needed to break down multi-part problems. If a problem has three or four steps, you may need to break them down. The breaks in between are great, too. I think I mentioned something similar in another thread as well. I used to have my son run around the house X number of times! In all honesty, Lindina, but I am not you, remember, and you have other children to consider..... but in all honesty, I'd get rid of the tests and quizzes until he learns study habits. I'd do more oral quizzing and concentrate on the homework assignments. IMO, all tests do are test how much you can regurgitate, so to speak. It's what he is learning that is important. Some board work or paper work can easily tell you if he has mastered a concept. Also, I would, (and I DID do this with all 3 of my children at at least one point in time), I would re-evaluate if he missed an important concept somewhere along the line. I was constantly going back over things to cover some important concept that my son missed. At one point we even went back a whole year because I just felt he had missed too many of the concepts covered. This all may be awfully hard for you to do, when you are teaching a school vs. just your own children. And when he is expected to be re-introduced into the PS. But it's what I did in my situation.
Well I have to say I have a lot to think about. I'm really eager to find out what tomorrow holds.....
