Integrating History with Math goes wrong...

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MegCanada

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Math questions + slavery = angry parents
By QMI Agency

An elementary school in Georgia is under fire after it used examples of slavery to pose math problems: "If Frederick got two beatings per day, how many beatings did he get in one week?"

School district officials to say they will work with teachers at the Beaver Ridge Elementary School in Norcross, Ga., to come up with more appropriate lessons, reports the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

Parents at the school, where about a quarter of the 1,200 students are black, were outraged by questions such as: "Each tree has 56 oranges. If eight slaves pick them equally, then how much would each slave pick?"

They want an apology and diversity training for teachers.

District officials said the teachers meant no offense and were just trying to incorporate history into their Grade 3 math lessons, said the report.

"Clearly, they did not do as good of a job as they should have done," district spokeswoman Sloan Roach told the paper. "It was just a poorly written question.
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Now, honestly, I did make up similar word problems when my children were learning about the history of Slavery and the Underground Railroad, but I was a homeschooler, and I'm allowed to inflict my dodgy sense of humour on my own family. I think a higher degree of sensitivity is called for when you're teaching other people's children.

However, I'm curious what historical math questions would be deemed appropriate in this circumstance... "If it takes Sally one day to walk ten miles, and the Canadian border is fifty miles away, how many days will it take her to reach Freedom?" Or should we just stick to dividing up apple pie and counting lambs?

My own favorite public school word problem? My son came home in grade 6 giggling over a math question set in "Mohammad's Bagel Shop". His teacher had NO idea why we thought that was hilarious. :lol: (I imagine it's right down the road from Shlomo's Shawarmas.)
 
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I saw that video on CNN and didn't see an issue with the assignment at all. The whole page was full of questions from HISTORY. With MLK day and black history month coming up, of COURSE they're going to talk about slavery. We don't get in an uproar when other cultures, races, or events are discussed, so why does it matter? The parent I saw on the video said that the assignment meant he'd have to discuss slavery with his 8 year old for the first time... but shouldn't the 8 year old already have a basic knowledge of history, and/or shouldn't he have picked up this information from the integrated curriculum that was already talking about slavery in social studies? My kids have always known about slavery, because it's in the Bible. When talking about the way Joseph was treated in Egypt, we also discussed how black people were treated in early US history.

I don't know... I just don't get what all the fuss is about. *shrugs*
 
2littleboys said:
I saw that video on CNN and didn't see an issue with the assignment at all. The whole page was full of questions from HISTORY. With MLK day and black history month coming up, of COURSE they're going to talk about slavery. We don't get in an uproar when other cultures, races, or events are discussed, so why does it matter? The parent I saw on the video said that the assignment meant he'd have to discuss slavery with his 8 year old for the first time... but shouldn't the 8 year old already have a basic knowledge of history, and/or shouldn't he have picked up this information from the integrated curriculum that was already talking about slavery in social studies? My kids have always known about slavery, because it's in the Bible. When talking about the way Joseph was treated in Egypt, we also discussed how black people were treated in early US history.

I don't know... I just don't get what all the fuss is about. *shrugs*
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Wow... so the issue isn't that they thought the questions made light of a slave's hard life, but rather that the parents didn't want to discuss the "s-word" with their kids at all? :eek:

Goodness, by eight a child should certainly know some basic history!
 
The parents were mad because the questions were (seemingly) out of context, and that some kids might not understand that the slavery questions were in reference to history rather than present (even though everything else on the page was historically referenced). The test would say something like, "If a slave picked 7 peaches in one minute, how many did he pick in an hour?" It doesn't say, "If a (state) slave from (year) picked 7 peaches...?" That's really why they're in an uproar. *rolling eyes* They're nit-picking in my opinion.
 
2littleboys said:
The parents were mad because the questions were (seemingly) out of context, and that some kids might not understand that the slavery questions were in reference to history rather than present (even though everything else on the page was historically referenced). The test would say something like, "If a slave picked 7 peaches in one minute, how many did he pick in an hour?" It doesn't say, "If a (state) slave from (year) picked 7 peaches...?" That's really why they're in an uproar. *rolling eyes* They're nit-picking in my opinion.
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I saw an interview where parents were ranting about how the test was promoting slavery. Nothing on the test condemned slavery, which means that it was promoting it.
 
I do not have any issues with discussing slavery. It has been a big part of history, and way before any Africans ever came to the Americas. The children and I often discuss it.

The thing is, it does come across as presented in a lighthearted manner. Thats not a good idea, not in this country, where the enslavement of blacks is such a sensitive topic. I can see how many people think this somehow makes it 'acceptable".

Anyway, in my opinion, this is a really dumb and ineffective way of "integrating" history with math...
 
MomToMusketeers said:
I do not have any issues with discussing slavery. It has been a big part of history, and way before any Africans ever came to the Americas. The children and I often discuss it.

The thing is, it does come across as presented in a lighthearted manner. Thats not a good idea, not in this country, where the enslavement of blacks is such a sensitive topic. I can see how many people think this somehow makes it 'acceptable".

Anyway, in my opinion, this is a really dumb and ineffective way of "integrating" history with math...
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I'd be the wrong person to fix it, that's for sure, as the first solution that popped into my head was having each word problem end with "Slavery is bad, m'kay?" ;)

But I can definitely see your point. It's still a sensitive topic for some people.
 
MomToMusketeers said:
Anyway, in my opinion, this is a really dumb and ineffective way of "integrating" history with math...
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This is the point: It was tactless and unnecessary. I get just as irritated reading bible verses out of context in math textbooks from A Beka and others.

Yes, I can see how parents would be upset. Imagine the following questions:

- If 32 Jews died in Dachau on Monday, and 44 Jews died on Tuesday, how many Jews were exterminated those two days?
- If 12 American soldiers lost one arm in Afghanistan and 2 soldiers lost both legs, how many limbs were lost that day?
- If the British killed 60 out of 300 of Washington's men, what percentage of Washington's troops were killed?
- If an American bomb killed 6 innocent children in Iraq and each child had two living parents, how many parents lost children?

OK - so these are extreme examples, but slavery was an extreme practice too. Shouldn't we put ourselves in the shoes of others before coming up with such statements?

Yesterday, I happened to comment to someone in a store about the Georgia school issue as polite conversation. To my surprise, the guy responded with a very racist comment. Sadly, racism is alive and kicking in this country.
 
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Cornish Steve said:
This is the point: It was tactless and unnecessary. I get just as irritated reading bible verses out of context in math textbooks from A Beka and others.

Yes, I can see how parents would be upset. Imagine the following questions:

- If 32 Jews died in Dachau on Monday, and 44 Jews died on Tuesday, how many Jews were exterminated those two days?
- If 12 American soldiers lost one arm in Afghanistan and 2 soldiers lost both legs, how many limbs were lost that day?
- If the British killed 60 out of 300 of Washington's men, what percentage of Washington's troops were killed?
- If an American bomb killed 6 innocent children in Iraq and each child had two living parents, how many parents lost children?

OK - so these are extreme examples, but slavery was an extreme practice too. Shouldn't we put ourselves in the shoes of others before coming up with such statements?

Yesterday, I happened to comment to someone in a store about the Georgia school issue as polite conversation. To my surprise, the guy responded with a very racist comment. Sadly, racism is alive and kicking in this country.
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Actually, I kind of love those questions... :oops:

But the main point is, we have a greater duty to be sensitive when we're teaching other people's children. It's one thing to make light of something you know your kids understand as deadly serious, it's another thing to make light of it to a kid who might be growing up in a house steeped in racism. You don't want to risk reinforcing negative lessons.

Sorry to hear about your unfortunate encounter yesterday, Steve! I would have been quite upset, too.
 
I can see how it is in poor taste. I can see how it was not intended to be crude. What gets me is that the parents actually are concerned that they will have to explain a fact in our history that wasn't pretty.
 
Imagine that you were abused horribly as a child and kept for ten years in a basement. Then imagine that, 20 years from now, someone heard about your background and asked a math question that relates to abused children locked in basements. Would you feel proud of your history? Would you want the degrading experience to be brought to light? Slavery is much the same. It's not that people don't want to explain a fact of history; it's just that it's personal and, with racism still prevalent, very raw. It's something to be explained carefully and sensitively, not tactlessly thrown around in public.

When I looked into my family history, I found something out that I thought was very interesting. My mother, on the other hand, was ashamed of what had happened, had strived for years to keep it quiet, and was most uncomfortable when I tried to learn more. In the end, I found everything out, but the exercise made me more sensitive to the feelings of my mother. It wasn't slavery, but it was something that's not easy to admit or accept. Things you read in history books are cold, objective facts; things that relate to your own past are very personal and can hurt.
 
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I agree, Seeking. It's one thing to do calculations of prices, productivity, consumption, and so forth, but quite another to lightly quantify pain inflicted on another human being. I think problems like "A bale of cotton weighs 500 pounds. If one slave can pick X-pounds of cotton a day, how many pickers would it take to pick a bale?" or "Simon Legree sold X slaves for Y dollars total. On average, how much did each slave cost?" could be understandable. But counting beatings? I would definitely not like to find a problem such as "If a Roman flail had 18 lashes, and 8 of those had metal tips, and Jesus was struck 39 times, how many stripes were inflicted altogether? How many were inflicted by the metal tips?"
 
Actually, I went to a convent school in the seventies. I have a colouring project from first grade, about the stations of the cross. Each sheet had counting and alphabet activities, along with graphic descriptions of the torture Jesus went through. We folded the pages and made them into books when we were done.

Then I got to be a Roman soldier and "whip" Jesus, in the school play.

Our nuns knew that tales of torture were guaranteed ways to get a young child's rapt attention.
 
Cornish Steve said:
Imagine that you were abused horribly as a child and kept for ten years in a basement. Then imagine that, 20 years from now, someone heard about your background and asked a math question that relates to abused children locked in basements. Would you feel proud of your history? Would you want the degrading experience to be brought to light? Slavery is much the same. It's not that people don't want to explain a fact of history; it's just that it's personal and, with racism still prevalent, very raw. It's something to be explained carefully and sensitively, not tactlessly thrown around in public.
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Steve, where is the line drawn? Slavery had too huge of an impact in America and worldwide to treat it as personal. While it was personal for each individual slave, it was more than slavery. It was a movement that had mass influence and forced changes later down the road. It wasn't just a personal experience. It altered a nation. It was personal for everybody who was involved no matter the race. It was tragic. That isn't debatable. It was sick. That is not debatable. Parents not wanting to explain slavery because of past pains, well, I have a problem with this because silence breeds ignorance.
I hope that somebody doesn't try to take this and run with it because my intent isn't meant to come across the way it might sound, but I will dare to say that while these parents know people who might have been slaves, how many of them were slaves and how many of them were taught to hold onto the past and therefore have enslaved themselves with a past that they didn't experience? Where is the line drawn? As a nation, do we keep on the shackles of slavery and hold onto the pains of the past or do we take the stupid, thoughtless, and in poor taste questions and stop ignorance by discussing it rather than silencing it because it causes too much pain?

Hmm. Perhaps it is just me. Address slavery with respect and be sensitive about it. That is a must. For the parents to not want to explain slavery ... because it hurts ... like I shared, it is a part of American history. We need to be careful how much of the past we place upon our own lives for fear of enslaving ourselves in a day where Americans are free.

Back to the original post. :D
Yes the questions are in poor taste but not meant to offend.:D They should have been more thoughtful in there presentation.
 
Patty, your post made me think...

I'm reading Art Spiegelman's MetaMaus right now. If you haven't heard of it before, Maus is a graphic novel (a "comic"), detailing the story of Spiegelman's father during the Second World War, from the German ghettos to concentration camps and finally to the United States. He represents Jews as mice and Germans as cats.

Spiegelman comments at one point in an interview that he did not get any flack for portraying Jews as mice, even though the image of the rat is central to the most vicious Nazi propaganda. But there were protests in Poland over the fact that he used pigs to represent the Polish people. (Hitler called them "swine".)

Spiegelman's response was interesting, he said: "There seems to be something problematic about the Polish ability to assimilate its past. It proves that the book actually hit something alive, a nerve that needs to be cauterized."

I think it's possible the same thing could be said of the historical American Black experience. These math questions hit a living nerve. Avoiding the subject of slavery won't help, but I do agree that it should be approached tactfully with children that aren't your own. While there's something healthy about mocking evil ("Illinois Nazis!"), the classroom is maybe not the place for that.

Thank goodness none of the teachers used a certain n-word meaning selfish (in no way related to another n-word) on a spelling test! ;)
 
MegCanada said:
Actually, I went to a convent school in the seventies. I have a colouring project from first grade, about the stations of the cross. Each sheet had counting and alphabet activities, along with graphic descriptions of the torture Jesus went through. We folded the pages and made them into books when we were done.

Then I got to be a Roman soldier and "whip" Jesus, in the school play.

Our nuns knew that tales of torture were guaranteed ways to get a young child's rapt attention.
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But this wasn't in a public school math-cum-history test.
 
Meg, I never heard of that book. It sounds like a book I would be interested in reading.

I see a similar pattern with Native Americans, at least those in the southwest, especially those on the reservation. There is a history of dislike for "the white man". I can't help believing that our own government has had a hand in strengthening this ignorance by appointing them land and supporting them financially as an apology. At one point in time it was necessary because native indians were being slaughtered and almost extinguished. However, I believe that these days they belong in society like the rest of Americans. This isn't a blanket statement for all Native Americans because I have known some who live off the reservation and are married to white women. When I go to visit my parents, who are surrounded by reservations, rude comments are often made regarding my "white" husband and it doesn't take long for an argument to break out when history is discussed. To this day, many on the reservation see it as their right to be given land, housing, and financial support because of what happened many generations past. I have Native American blood in my veins but I can't hate "white men" for what happened and I think the parents who teach their children that they are victims because their ancestors suffered are breeding self-slavery.

I also apologize if I took this thread off course. :D
 
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