I don't even know how to express my response to this topic. I will say that as a former breastfeeding mom, and a Christian, I am appalled at the negative (and legal-based) response to this topic. I personally would never have taken issue if approached at my church and asked to use the nursery vs. the foyer. There's so much I want to say, but I know I'll just get flamed for having an obviously contrary opinion. I opened this topic thinking I'd learn something about co-ops, and I'm leaving thinking homeschoolspot might have just dropped off my list of places to visit regularly.
1. Shelly obviously disagrees with the notion that the mothers should be allowed to breastfeed anywhere they wish, but no one is being rude or mean or flaming her (at least not that I can tell...). 2. There's no reason to let one contradictory thread determine your view of the entire forum. 3. People each have their own soapboxes. BFing in public happens to be one of mine. I'm sure there are issues about which you feel very strongly. The beauty of a public forum is that we are each allowed to express our opinions about these 'hot topics'. Heck, I've even seen (and experienced) times when a disagreement such as this has lead to a change of heart by one or more participants. That's how we grow. But if never voice our hearts, we're never challenged to stretch our thinking.
You didn't say whether or not your group considers itself to be (or calls itself) an INCLUSIVE group, but if it does, then I would say you need to listen to the voices of the members, even if it sounds like they are complaining. The fact that you are holding meetings in a building where there is a dress code required and a moratorium on where breastfeeding can take place doesn't SOUND very inclusive, personally. If you want to continue to create an inclusive environment for all members, I would look for a meeting place without such requirements. If you prefer to change the group to a faith-based group, however, then that is totally your right, and then you can create rules based on those principles and ask that any members who want to join must uphold those rules. TSmama24
Well I totally agree with what Aimee has said I do think people need to realize that there is such a thing as modesty. And not all people are comfortable seeing breasts exposed. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask them to use a room a few feet away politely especially. If it's a MUST then yes it goes against the law and is wrong. But remembering modesty and a church generally go together then, what's the real issue. Soapbox or no we need to realize this is the world we live in. By the way I breastfed both my kids proudly but always found a private area to do it in. I am not one for onlookers of a private moment. Yes it's natural and a beautiful thing betwix mother and child.
I respectfully disagree. We are called to not conform to this world, to be in it but not of it, to bring about Christ's kingdom on earth. That cannot be accomplished if we say "this is the world we live in" and just go about dealing with issues the way the world does. I agree that modesty should be exemplified in church. I have no problem with a church expecting that a woman's breasts aren't hanging out. But that isn't what was asked. The women were asked to remove themselves from the public eye as if breastfeeding was something to be ashamed of and done in the secret places.
Nursing isn't being immodest. It isn't related at all. Because some see it that way doesn't mean that it should be allowed to continue. On a side note, I guess I've gotten pretty discrete with nursing in public because I have had more people want to come and try to peek at the baby that they though was sleeping than people who give me the "evil eye". I do hope that when my daughter grows up things will be different and there will be no shame attached to feeding your baby.
When I visit India, grown men walk hand in hand all the time. It's what close friends do, but in our culture it's taboo. What to do when culture frowns on something? We can dig in our heels, claim our rights, and make a point. Or we can accept that some people don't like it, choose not to make a big deal of it, and keep a low profile. It all depends on context. Now, I realize that, as a man, it's not appropriate for me to comment on the general issue of breast-feeding; however, as a general principle, if an issue is not central to the point at hand, I tend to drop it. The point here is that there's a wonderful co-op operating out of an ideal venue, and it's being threatened by people who want to make a 'political' point about something that has nothing to do with homeschooling. What's wrong with using some discretion here and setting aside a nursing room? Would it undermine homeschool lessons? No. And if some mothers won't accept the solution voluntarily, then I'd have no hesitation in making it a condition of attending the co-op. There are right and wrong times to make a point - and I don't see how being militant on this matter serves the purpose of the homeschooling co-op. If the leaders cave in on this matter, my guess is that another issue would surface within a year.
This isn't about a cultural difference. The culture has made a law saying it is discriminatory to tell a woman she has to breastfeed in a separate room. I don't see how it is right to allow discrimination for the sake of a venue. Sometimes it takes a Rosa Parks to get things to change. Nothing will ever change if everyone chooses to keep a low profile.
I have to say that I agree with Steve 100%. I was really debataing whether I would even comment or not, but after seeing Steve's comment I decided I would echo his comments as a female that breastfeed two children. I am really not sure why it would be offensive or discriminatory for the church to give breastfeeding mother's a place to comfortably feed their children. If they asked you to go to the bathroom, then I think I would dig my heels in, but what is the issue here? Making a point for the points sake? Some times just because we have the legal "right" doesn't mean we need stir up a situation over a non-issue. It seems to me it takes away from the co-op's mission. If I didn't have a safe comfortable place to breastfeed, then I could complain otherwise what's the big deal?
The culture has also made a law that gives Muslims the right to build a giant mosque at Ground Zero in New York City, but it would be far more tactful for them to build it elsewhere. The law sets limits and boundaries, but we can offend plenty of people unnecessarily within the confines of the law. Goodwill can solve a multitude of problems.
The mosque in NYC is a whole different topic. Discrimination is discrimination whether someone is Muslim or a breastfeeding mother. The problem is that it will continue to be offensive if mothers are herded off into another room.
A. It's not a Mosque, it's a community center B. It's not "at ground zero." It's a few blocks away. C. There have been Muslim services held in that park for years, and no one said a word until they wanted to build an actual building. Trust me when I say that I'm whole-heartedly, unabashedly anti-Muslim. But there's no need to propagate untruths.
Then let me use a different analogy. Maybe I'm on my way to an important business meeting and arrive at the airport with colleagues. We all climb into a waiting limo, and the driver tells us to buckle up. Personally, I disagree with the government telling me what I can and cannot do, and I refuse to wear a seat belt. I tell everyone in the car that this is a big issue for me: If they want to get to the meeting on time, they cannot expect me to wear a seat belt. The driver, however, owns the limo, and these are his rules. What's the right answer? Should everyone get to the meeting late because of me? Should my colleagues tell me to get out because I won't follow the rules? Doesn't it depend on what's most important at that point in time - namely, to get to the meeting on time? This is the point I was trying to make: There are right and wrong times to make a point. Yes, I know that I'm playing with fire on this one, because it's an emotive issue. It's not that I disagree at all with the strong feelings and emotions that people have, but shouldn't our response depend on the context? In the example at hand, the most important thing is to continue the excellent work of a local co-op in an ideal venue. Why put all that at risk over an issue not really relevant to homeschooling?
Here is what the BIG deal is with this breastfeeding issue. Women all over this country are told on a daily basis to go feed our children somewhere else so as not to make someone else uncomfortable. We are told to go feed them in dirty dressing rooms in stores (where I won't even try on clothes.. I buy them and take them home if they don't fit, I return them.. why in the world would I want to let my baby enjoy his/her meal somewhere I won't even go under the "normal" circumstances???) or bathrooms (again a filthy place.. would YOU want to eat in a public bathroom? yeah I didn't think so!), or out of the way rooms where we are sent like it's shameful to be doing what is 100% natural and has been done as long as humans have been on this earth. I'm not Christian, but for those who claim to be and are saying that it's fine to discriminate against a nursing baby and mother think of this... do you think that your Blessed Mary was asked to go behind the stable to nurse your baby Jesus? If we let a church push us around, then it's ok to let a store tell us we can't nurse while walking around or while sitting on a bench, and it's ok for a restraunt to tell us that we can't sit in our booth and feed our babies (and then we can't be in there when the baby cries either because now they can discrimate children all together). It's just wrong, completely wrong. And Steve.. as a man, my husband would be the first one to stand up for his babies right to eat where ever (s)he desired. PS.. we don't tell mothers to take their baby to some dirty place to feed him or her when they whip out a bottle of chemicals to feed their baby... and to me that is more offensive because of the crap they are putting into that innocent person. So from now on when I see someone choose this option is it ok for me to treat them like they are doing something horrible, or should I respect their decision and be happy that they are caring for their baby and even more applaud them because they are not showing a section of bare belly (because 99% of the time you can nurse without anyone ever seeing any breast)?
YES!!!!!!! That's it exactly. Steve, the scenario you described contains a flaw: The law is on the side of the limo driver.... Just as the law is on the side of the mothers. By choosing to make a stink about not buckling up, you are out of compliance with the law. But if a nursing mom wants to make a stink about breastfeeding in the foyer, she IS in compliance with the law.
If a store forces moms to use a changing room, then you have the right to shop in a more friendly store. When the store owners realize they are losing business, they'll react. Me too. My wife fed all six of our children. I'm suggesting, in this case, a nursing room - a clean room, designed for feeding, with comfortable chairs, that's nice and quiet, within yards of the classroom, but where moms are out of sight of church members who take offense. (I wouldn't take offense, but it's not my building.) Here's the crux of the matter: Would you be willing to see the homeschool co-op be disbanded rather than accept that moms must use a specific nursing room (as a condition of using the building)? Is this your Maginot Line? Guaranteed - the church members are set in their ways and won't compromise. (Also guaranteed, in my opinion - the militant moms in this example will find another issue to raise before too long.)
You're probably right about that. I'd still like clarification on what exactly the issue is with the dress code. I assume it's that they don't follow it. If that's the case, then these ladies need a lesson in respect. But only on the issue of the dress code. They SHOULD be making a stink about the breastfeeding demands. Of course, unless this is the only co-op around, I don't see why they'd stay when the obviously do not agree with the rules. Perhaps they should form their own.
