Honestly.. yes I would stand up for this until the death! If a group that's main focus was to serve their children as a whole, in the best manner possible, isn't strongly supporting a nursing mother who is giving their baby the absolute best start to life possible, then I would question the groups integrity... but because I stand strongly for the rights of babies and mothers, I wouldn't walk away from the group because it's more important to stand my ground for nursing mothers everywhere else. By the way.. many places have nursing areas.. I have yet to find one that was clean (many have been in womens bathrooms and some places like Babies R Us have separate areas).
I agree Amie, the dress code to me is silly.. there are dress codes everywhere really, and the code seems more than reasonable to me, and if it's a written rule of the group then there isnt' room for arguement and if you don't like it you can go elsewhere.... but the breastfeeding is worth a fight!
As far as being a Christian and breastfeeding, there is absolute nothing wrong with that and I don't think anyone is saying that here. I did and many others do too. However we still need to be modest when doing it, no matter where we are. The Greek word for modesty is Ai·dos′. When "used in a moral sense expresses the thought of ...respect for the feeling or opinion of others..." among other things. So if we are hanging out all over the place (as I have seen some do) then I can see how some here in this culture may be uncomfortable. In this country breasts are seen as very sexual. Perhaps seeing a woman breastfeeding aroused sexual feeing in someone at the church. So as a Christian we need to be sensitive to the feelings of others in this regard so as long as the mother and the baby have clean and safe alternative. It's not always about what we want. But I will say, most of the women I know have a nursing blanket they use of privacy wherever they are. I was never asked to nurse in another area and don't personally know anyone who was either.
I think is someone saw a nursing mother and had sexual feelings then THAT PERSON is the one who should be respectful and remove themselves from the situation, and they should be the ones to be sent shamefully to a different room.
From crazymama... "PS.. we don't tell mothers to take their baby to some dirty place to feed him or her when they whip out a bottle of chemicals to feed their baby... and to me that is more offensive because of the crap they are putting into that innocent person. " I like you crazymama, I really do but by saying this you have greatly hurt a lot of people that couldn't breastfeed for medical/physical reasons. IMHO there are a ton of places that let you openly breastfeed.. go to them instead of a place you know won't allow it. Or if you are breastfeeding then go shopping at the store that doesn't allow it when the baby is sleeping or at home with dad/SO. These are public places that can say, no shirt, no shoes, no breastfeeding if they wanted...don't shop there and maybe they will change the policy. Write letters, etc. When I feed "chemicals to my innoccent child" I either went to the car and feed them or yep that dirty public restroom ( FYI they were never that dirty I just took a stall and sat on the toliet seat and rocked them). If it was in the middle of a shopping trip I took the cart to customer service and said I will return in 10-15 mins and then went to my car...really easy or the restroom (if it was in a mall). The OP stated that this is the churches policy, when anyone uses the buliding they have a room just for breastfeeding (even during church services), its their buliding they can set the rules. If others don't comply either let them not join the co-op or move to another buliding if possible. You like the group and the buliding comply, if not don't ruin the church's future business ( or make them not open their doors to others)...its THEIR RIGHT as a private owner to have their policy in place.
I called formula chemical because it makes it sound dirty, like nursing is being protrayed by so much of society. My oldest was a chemical baby.. I worked because I had to, and I worked 12 hour shifts an hour each way from my house so I was gone 15 to 16 hours a day, it was not a place that was pumping mom friendly (though I had the right to do so, and they would have had to accomodate me because of the laws), I knew I needed the job and if I wasn't reaching my required quotas I would have lost my job, so I knew taking time every few hours to pump would have jepordize all of that, so chemicals it was. My 2nd only got to nurse for 5 months before the dr decided it wasn't safe for her to continue... so she too went to formula (I had gotten pregnant again just 3 months out from a c-section and they feared the weak scar tearing from the uterine contractions caused by nursing). So yeah I do completely understand that breastfeeding isn't always an option, but when it is, it is the absolute best choice there is. But even still I feel very very strongly about a woman and babies right to nurse. It was never stated that it was the churches policy, or that there was a room specifically for breastfeeding.. it was stated that someone saw the mom nursing and in turn the church asked them to use one of the other rooms. If the church doesnt' want to run the risk of having a nursing baby in there then they need to make their rules so that they comply with the law, which would mean that NO baby nursing or not, be allowed in the foyer of the church.
Actually, in this country, it is thankfully NOT THEIR RIGHT to have this policy. The law is clear. No one has the right to ask a BFing mom to remove herself from anywhere.
You've just made my point very strongly: It's all a matter of context and priorities. You wouldn't risk your job over the matter, so why would you disband an excellent homeschool co-op? Sometimes, discretion is the better part of valor.
Be careful. This principle has been used by some activist groups to force churches to recruit openly, even militantly, gay employees, and it's being used in some countries to stifle what can be preached in church.
Um. No it hasn't. The law applies clearly to breastfeeding mothers. There are no religious exemptions. The laws twisted to be used in order to force churches to recruit gay employees had to be twisted to fit.
I have to disagree here.. earning an income that is required to provide a home and food and clothing for a child is not comparable to a coop that isn't a necessary part of homeschooling. If I didn't have a decent income to provide for us, I would have had to give my son up for adoption, therefore I wasn't willing to risk my job, I am, however 100% capable of homeschooling him without a coop.
The church members are breaking the law. I would rather the group be disbanded than to feed into discrimination. The clothing issue is not a matter of law. It isn't comparable.
That concept works in reverse too. Church members aren't being too sensitive to the needs of the mothers or babies here, are they? The sexual feelings are a problem, but they belong to the one having the feelings.
I'd like documentation on that. Because as far as LLL is aware, all 50 states have laws protecting women who are breastfeeding from being legally bound to remove themselves from anywhere.
This site seems to provide a breakdown of the laws: http://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=14389 I will say that I think the topic has strayed pretty far from the OP. The reality of it is this - if the group wants to stay at this church, they will need to comply with its requests or most likely see themselves being ousted from the facility, a facility which--- from the sound of it--- is generously allowing the use of its building for next to nothing in cost. Since the OP wants to know what to tell her friend who is in charge, I'd just have her friend call a meeting with the group and lay it on the line. Either y'all abide by the requests, or you're out a building to use for the group's activities. People who want a new building can research one and find one, but it would probably have to be comparable in terms of cost and they'd need to find out all the rules that building would have up-front. Otherwise, people will need to just put on their big gal undies and deal with the rules or quit the group. People can vote their consciences, and that's that. From your other post on one of the other forums, though, I would strongly recommend that your group leader sit down and get some hard and fast rules on paper that are presented to people BEFORE they sign up, if this isn't already done. That way, there really won't be any room for future arguments about what people are wearing or doing; the signed sheet becomes the final word.
Rather than debate the legal translations of these laws (in all 50 states, mind you), I'll just use this quote: Since the OP is in Arkansas.... 'nough said.
Sigh...which is, again, a completely moot point. The reality for the OP and her group is this: either abide by the wishes of the church, or the church can and most likely will, expel their group from their premises. The church has no contractual, business-related obligation to have the group there, so they are perfectly within their rights to make them leave. The group needs to decide among its members if modest dress and breastfeeding in whatever area of the church they want to is important enough to sacrifice the building they're using over. And that's the issue before the group at this point.
All issues aside. Get the group together and have a democratic vote. If the rules were not in place before the members in question joined it can be explained. The church is doing an at will rental of the facility. They have set new guidelines. These are the new rules as a result. If you want to remain a member please sign the paper that you have read and will abide by these rules. Then offer to help guide them to another co-op if they choose to leave. Or even to help guide them in setting up their own in a similar fashion to yours. You are not asking them to leave, you are simply informing them of new guidelines. It is their choice whether to sign or find a co-op more suitable to their needs. And yes, I know the laws on breastfeeding are on the mothers side. And that it would be great if the church would comply. But as brought up in here, the church will avoid all legal ramifications by simply saying they have chosen not to open their doors to the co-op for whatever reason. The co-op will more than likely not be able to afford another location as suitable, and will have to disband. Since the goal is to keep this co-op operative, then this is the solution.
If the church were to oust this group on the grounds of someone breastfeeding in a public area, they are opening themselves up to the possibility of a legal battle, because it would be openly discriminating. So, really the group should feel secure in the fact that the nursing mother has the laws on her side.
