I guess I didn't make my point very well. I wasn't saying people were worshipping satan in all aspects of their participation in halloween. I was trying to say that the "holiday" itself is pagan, and therefore not of God....and therefore satanic by default. Satan doesn't care if you are muslim, hindu, atheist, or agnostic. If you aren't worshipping the One True God in Christ, you belong to him anyway. Does that make more sense? You still may not agree, just wanted to make sure it wasn't coming across that I thought the people out and about were all practicing satan worship.
The bottom line is what the Bible says. Here are a few scriptures I like to keep in mind about worship and obedience to God. John 4:24 – “God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth." Mark 7:9 and 11 - “And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!...Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” We are all free to choose our own course. It is good to “Keep testing whether you are in the faith…” (2 Corinthians 13:5) Discussions like this are good because they should make us think and delve into the scriptures to make sure that our worship is approved by God.
Yes it was. Just look it up and you will find many websites that talk about it. I'm NOT talking about the shamrock...that is a completely different subject that we already went over. http://hubpages.com/hub/Upside-Down-Christmas-Tree- And yes it talks about the upside down tree, but does it really matter what way it was hung at this point? Here is more... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_tree
I wanted to stem something off from this and couldn't remember til now...thank you for pointing this out. When people talk about Christian's turning something pagan into something relgious...I should remind people that since God created everything to be holy from the day of creation, it was initially man who turned his Godly perfection into someting pagan! Obviously if one does not believe in God, this argument might not hold water, but considering I am a believer and believe that God created everything we see before our eyes (trees, for example ) than I am of the firm belief that everything in the beginning was Holy and it was us/God's people who chose to turn his initial Holy creation into something pagan. Kind of like the question, what came first, the chicken or the egg? Well, IMHO, it was God who created everything perfect and Holy to start... I can't remember what was said that initially prompted me to spew this out...but this reminded me of it.
Thank you. I have researched, and found a few references to St. Boniface using the triangular shape of the fir tree as a symbol of the Trinity. I found many more which stated that he used it as a symbol of Christianity (because a fir tree sprang from the roots of the Oak of Thor that he cut down), the love of God ("welcoming branches"), (the branches) pointing toward heaven, etc., that did not mention anything about explaining the Trinity. The only legend I'd ever run across before about using a natural object for explaining the Trinity was that of Patrick. I've learned something today and stand corrected. Thank you again.
Wow...I am not sure what to add. As a Christian I am opposed to celebrating holidays that do not honor the Lord but some other "god" or a false religion or paganism. I also see the trouble with how many pagan practices are intertwined with Christmas and Easter. However, I do not do Santa or the Easter bunny or Easter eggs. What does that make me? Well, I am still a human and imperfect yet happens to be a Christian. I see so many things I agree with on both sides of this argument. However, I think that is we seek to honor Christ daily with a true heart we will find ways to do that which do not compromise our faith. For me that means I can have a Christmas tree but I don't do Santa. I go to church on Easter as any other Sunday but no Easter eggs or bunnies. I do NOT celebrate Halloween in any way shape or form. This does not make me right or more spiritual. I think we tend to pick a bit too much with other people's traditions. I also think that many Christians may not know much of the background in relation to holidays. That does not mean they do not love the Lord or are good Christians. What makes a good Christian? Careful how you answer or you will run knee deep into legalism.
I am definitely with you on this point! While I was reading about St. Boniface, I also ran across some legend that said that in the Garden, it was the fir tree's fruit that Eve picked and ate and shared with Adam, so ever since then, the fir tree has only needles and cones and will not leaf, bloom, and fruit again as it did in the Garden until it does so in Heaven.
You're very welcome. Sorry if I sounded snippy, it's been a hectic week and I just got irritated with repeating myself. That is not how I wanted to come across, but now that I look back and reread my post (after I even edited it a little) it still sounds a bit snippy. I apologize. :love:
I think you are right on and sometimes that we need to be reminded that someones's convictions may not be someone else's convictions. God hasn't convicted me to not allow my kids to dress up on Halloween. HOWEVER, when I was growing up my mom and dad became convicted to stop all the Halloween stuff by the time I was around 11/12 years old. They stopped handing out candy, etc. A couple years ago they started doing it again for the neighborhood children but for that long span it was a conviction of the mom and dad's that they were not going to give Halloween any exposure in their home. The nice thing is that when I started allowing my kids to go trick or treating, they didn't look down on me one bit. They asked why I was letting them, but they never said anything else or scorned me for it because they respected my reasonings for allowing them to participate.
This seems to be the consensus here. So do you think it would be wrong to participate in any celebration from a culture where their false religion is linked to pretty much everything? Would you attend something like a Hindu wedding? Where should a line be drawn? For instance should you only read about Diwali, read about it and light a Diwali lamp at home as part of your learning experience, attend a local Diwali festival with Hindus, or just not learn about it at all?
I, for one, would attend a wedding of a friend who happened to be of some other religion. Or a funeral, if "outsiders" were to be present. I have attended street festivals such as Chinese New Year, "just looking" where presence does not necessarily imply participation. OTOH, I refuse to attend a Mardi Gras - "the last big hurrah before the austerity of Lent". I could name a town (NOT New Orleans, which is bad enough) where the drunken debauchery on the streets is too much for an adult to want to see, never mind take a child to "celebrate"! That said, I might still go to a Mardi Gras that is done in the old-fashioned country fashion (no parade, floats, beads or doubloons) - men on horseback wear costumes and go to people's houses and "beg" for the ingredients (rice, sausage, onions and seasonings, or a live chicken they have to jump off their horses to chase around the yard and catch for themselves) for a huge gumbo supper that evening, shared by all. Some of the horsemen might get a little drunk, but the Captain is responsible for keeping them all under control. I might mention, too, that at our little school, we don't decorate a tree for Christmas or color pictures of Santa Claus but have our Bible lessons about Jesus' birth, we don't color pictures of eggs and baskets for Easter but have our Bible lessons about Jesus' death/burial/resurrection, and we generally totally ignore Hallowe'en and Mardi Gras, as well as most political "holidays". We do take off for Labor Day, but not Columbus Day, Veterans' Day, Memorial Day, Pearl Harbor Day, Arbor Day, MLK Day, Presidents' Day, or the first day of hunting season. We may make note of special days by having a lesson about it (MLK Day for example) but we don't take off school for them.
My family learns a lot about other cultures and religions, but we don't participate in any of their worship ceremonies. My dh's family has Native American roots, but we would not participate in ceremonies that were worship or prayer to their gods, even though I have a great respect for their pre-Christian-conversion tradition. I have also attended weddings where part of the ceremony was not appropriate for me to take part in. I attended, but refrained from the prayer offered to someone I don't consider to be a diety to pray to.
First you mentioned you Diwali and all I could think of was The Office...lol. Anyway..I think participating in something the compromises your faith is wrong. However, I do not see anything wrong in studying other cultures. I also see nothing wrong in experiencing other cultures yet having that tempered with a respect for your own faith. Yes a very hard line to draw. This is why I emphasize having the right heart attitude and a spirit that is always seeking the Lord as this will be your guide. I would attend a Hindu wedding but I would not pray along just as I would not expect a Hindi to pray at my church if he attended an activity. I don't think attending an event is participating. I think if you light candles to other gods or pray to other gods or begin to chant to a spirit you are going too far. Do you see my meaning? Not sure if I am clear. When my aunt died I went to her funeral at a catholic church. When the priest asked for people to come up for communion I did not go. I do not hate catholics. I was raised catholic and much of my family is catholic. However, I was not going to be a participant in their religion or rituals in a way that I felt may conflict with my faith. I'll be honest, I was not sure if communion was a conflict or not so I just didn't do it. My upbringing and understanding of catholic communion is rusty and I thought it had a different meaning...couldn't remember...I may be dead wrong. However, my questioning it lead me to respectfully decline. Especially after the sermon by the priest that completely conflicted with the Word...again that could just be that priest. I am trying to tread lightly as I am NOT saying anything against catholics even though it sounds like it...lol. This is not about catholics. This is about me in a situation where I was unsure how to reconcile it so I did not partake yet I was there to support my family.
I understand your perspective. Thank you for sharing it. LOL, Is there someone one there named Diwali?
No, there was an episode where the people from the office attended a Diwali event held by the relatives of an Indian office worker.
In the show, no...it was explained it was about a Hindu God but that was it. I never saw an episode of The Office before this year, can you believe that? It's hysterical. I'm not much for TV comedies. That Netflix has caused me to watch more TV than ever...maybe I should get rid of it. lol. OH here's story that is on the subject! When I was babysitting, I mistakenly thought the kids I was babysitting for did not celebrate Halloween. Their father is a pastor that I knew preached against...well..knew through the grapevine. When the little girl asked me why we did not celebrate Halloween (it was near Halloween and one of my kids said something) I gave her our reasons about it conflicting with the Bible. I gave a short answer...but it cut to the chase. Little did I know that these kids dressed up every year and went trick or treating. lol. Well, the next day the little girl came up to me and said, "We don't celebrate Halloween, we just have fun with it." and walked away. LOL. Honestly, had I known her family got dressed up and stuff I would have cleverly avoided the question. No need for me to make a stand to a 6 year old. These same kids were taught to believe in Santa Claus. My kids were not. One of the little girls came up to me and said, "Aaron (my son) said there is no Santa Claus!" Knowing she was brought up with the Santa tradition I said, "He won't get any gifts from Santa." LOL. It certainly isn't my place to trample on others holiday traditions. So finding a way to not lie yet not break a kid's heart was the only way.
AvaRose, my dh was raised Catholic, and most of his family still is, if they go to church at all. His sister was baptized in a Baptist Church, and one or two of her sons, but not the same church we attend (different towns). We go to all the family weddings, funerals, etc. We didn't go when his brother's wife converted from Baptist to Catholic and was confirmed along with a niece, but not because of a conflict of faith, we just couldn't make it that day. DH never could bring himself to tell his grandmother he'd converted... But his mother said to me once that she was just glad he's going to church, she didn't mind at all that it wasn't a Catholic church - Same God, right? Same Jesus - was her thought. She told me that she thanked God often for me and for her son-in-law (other daughter's husband), that because of us her kids were attending church SOMEwhere, which is what was important to her. DH had many conversations with his mom, and was pretty sure that she understood the Gospel (the Bible, not just what the priests taught), and is pretty sure that we'll see her again in heaven (she died a few years ago). When we go to a wake, we try to leave before the Rosary. When we go to a wedding, a funeral, etc., we don't genuflect or cross ourselves, we stand and sit but don't kneel, we shake hands all around at the appropriate time, and pray the Our Father aloud when it's time for that, but we don't say all the congregational responses or take communion. When we go, I always listen very carefully to the homily and everything else that's said, and sometimes I've actually been surprised how Biblically accurate it all was - it wasn't always that way.
