SAT and the Common Core

Discussion in 'Homeschooling' started by ShellChelle, Jun 29, 2014.

  1. CrazyMom

    CrazyMom Banned

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    Last edited: Jun 30, 2014
  2. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    No they're not. Rachael is not at a Christian school. And, because her university is so close the air force base, the school works on many government projects. The state colleges in the states that reject it will also not be following that standard. I think it will fall to the way-side, just like all the others that came before it (such as Outcome Based Education). There's too many problems with CC.
     
  3. Lindina

    Lindina Active Member

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    SAT/ACT used to be designed around what the colleges/unis wanted incoming students to know and be prepared for. Now, however, they are redesigned according to what the k-12 system is teaching. Consequently, many colleges/unis are stopping their reliance on SAT/ACT and are using other criteria - I don't know what yet - for admissions. I just read an article yesterday about how the redesigned tests are focusing on all the negatives in American history, not any of the positives that contributed to make this country the great one it was up until recently. I agree that ALL of history needs to be taught, positives and negatives, but there needs to be balance - not all the negatives only. And that's what they're teaching down in grade school now - not the facts. I've seen samples - an "English" assignment that teaches 3rd graders to write propaganda, 5th graders that they can change the Bill of Rights by committee, and subservience to the government in "punctuation" lessons... And all this about "sacrificing for the common good." That should be a personal decision made out of altruism, not socialist indoctrination in grade school.

    I won't be surprised if they don't try to outlaw homeschooling one day soon -- because we're not drinking the Kool-Aid, we're not training to be good little worker bees for the common hive. Certain corporations have now published policies that reject homeschoolers from certain jobs - doesn't matter if you have a college degree from state university or wherever after that.
     
  4. hermione310

    hermione310 New Member

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    I hate to get drawn into a debate, but would just like to throw in here that we just got our first taste of curriculum aligned to Common Core standards in our 3rd grade math materials.

    It's AWFUL. Rather than starting out teaching students one straightforward way to perform multiplication, multiplication is demonstrated using:

    - "standard algorithm"
    - arrays
    - area models
    - partial products

    After this exhausting and confusing series of explanations (introducing one method initially would have sufficed), students are asked to work through problems using ALL FOUR methods. As a homeschool mom, I didn't ask my daughter to show her work four times for each problem (at one point she layed on the floor groaning); however, I was told by a local elementary teacher that public school students are required to show their work for all methods, and if they do not or arrive at a solution via an alternate method, they are forced to mark the problem incorrect per the new standards.

    AGH!!!!

    I feel so blessed to have the freedom to massage my curriculum as I feel appropriate to meet the needs of my child. Thank you, Lord, for giving us the opportunity to homeschool. I can't imagine what we'd have to swallow in public school.

    At first the Common Core debate was largely philosophical for me. Now that I've actually encountered Common Core aligned materials, I can quickly say -- not a fan. So sorry the SAT is going that route as well.
     
  5. CrazyMom

    CrazyMom Banned

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    It's not about getting the right answer, it's about understanding the process.....because a full understanding of the process is necessary for understanding higher math.

    The way they're teaching is not randomly put together to make you crazy...it's made to prepare your kids for higher maths.

    The SAT is an aptitude test for higher learning. Of course it will conform to Common Core...since that's the whole point!

    Ya'll are really shooting yourselves in the foot on this one.
     
  6. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    Then hand me the gun!

    Of course, you want kids to understand the why's. But there is such thing as overkill.

    AND on a totally different note, Faythe got her SAT score today. She got a 26, much better than I expected her to do! She did especially well in reading and language, and will probably take it over to see if she can Improve. I was very pleased with how she did!
     
  7. Danielle

    Danielle New Member

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    For what it's worth, I've been told by public school teachers (who homeschool their kids) to avoid CC. Teachers have quit the teaching field altogether because of it.
     
  8. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    Danielle, I've also heard that from public school teachers who don't homeschool their kids.
     
  9. Lindina

    Lindina Active Member

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    Very good, Faythe! Way to go!
     
  10. Maybe

    Maybe New Member

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    the SAT will not be made to conform to the common core as it is used world wide. China is not adopting common core, the UK is not adopting it, India is not adopting it, etc. Even AP classes are not affected by common core. And IB programs are definitely not affected by common core.
     
  11. hermione310

    hermione310 New Member

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    I understand the objective. It's the execution that's the problem.
     
  12. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    It's fine to explain all that, but too many different methods make it confusing. And eventually they STILL should be made to "learn the facts". I mean, I don't want a college engineering student drawing dots and counting them!!!

    And PLEASE don't tell me we don't need to learn facts because they'll be using a calculator!!! When I was waiting tables and adding tips, I could add the same figures three times and get three different answers. But when I added them without a calculator, it was rarely wrong.
     
  13. hermione310

    hermione310 New Member

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    Totally agree.

    Not to mention throwing four different methods for representing something the first time they encounter it is a mistake. How about showing one method, building confidence, then expanding to other ways to represent the same thing? It was completely overwhelming and seemed like one of those things that sounds good to the designers but makes no practical sense.

    I can only imagine what common core aligned language arts will seem like once we get our first taste of it. Better buckle up and get myself a second cup of coffee.
     
  14. CrazyMom

    CrazyMom Banned

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    Jackie......Faythe did not get a 26 on the SAT. For the SAT, they get 200–800 (in 10-point increments) on each of three sections (total score of 600–2400).

    Faythe probably took the ACT...which is scored 1-36. Average ACT score in Ohio is 22, so 26 is a VERY respectable score. Congrats to her. Well done, Faythe!
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2014
  15. CrazyMom

    CrazyMom Banned

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    "the SAT will not be made to conform to the common core as it is used world wide. China is not adopting common core, the UK is not adopting it, India is not adopting it, etc. Even AP classes are not affected by common core. And IB programs are definitely not affected by common core."

    This is all utterly incorrect information.

    IB IS aligned with common core. http://www.ibo.org/iba/commoncore/documents/IBCommonCorePositionStatement.pdf

    SAT IS aligned with common core. http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/373283/common-core-and-new-sat-lindsey-burke

    AP IS aligned with common core. http://research.collegeboard.org/pu...-state-standards-alignment-advanced-placement



    Bottom line...if you want your kid to have the best chances of testing well on the tests that get them into top schools...you'd be wise to prepare them with some exposure to common core...because the SAT and the ACT are both supporting common core now. And since the CREATOR of the common core is president of college board (creator of the SAT and AP classes)...I doubt that's going to change any time soon.

    If you expect your kid to get into a less competitive college....you'll be fine, and you don't need to worry about common core.

    If you want your kid to go to a top public or private....you're handicapping them if you don't expose them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2014
  16. CrazyMom

    CrazyMom Banned

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    Yes, many teachers don't like common core. If you're a 4th grad teacher in Alabama (where educational standards are abysmally low) you've probably been teaching 3rd grade material for years. Switching to common core will require you to develop an entirely new curriculum that is at national grade level, and learn new ways to teach that you've never seen before. But that's part of being an educator...doing your continuing education so you're giving your students the best information available. There are a lot of excellent teachers who LOVE common core. My daughter had many of them in high school.
     
  17. CrazyMom

    CrazyMom Banned

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  18. CrazyMom

    CrazyMom Banned

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    Look guys, I get it...ya'll don't like common core, you're angry about it, and nothing is going to change your mind.

    I'm just saying....it is what it is. SAT, ACT, AP, IB...are all signed up. Colleges, more and more, are adapting the expectation that kids coming in are familiar with common core and that that knowledge can be built on.

    Regardless of how you feel about it, I'm just pointing out....If you won't have anything to do with it...where does that leave your kids if they want to go to a very competitive school?
     
  19. CrazyMom

    CrazyMom Banned

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    Here's a sobering thought....if all the tests that determine college entrance are common core aligned....what do you think will happen to the kids in states where kids are not taught common core?

    Colleges are largely independent entities. They want the best students with the best chances of success.

    Try to wrap your head around this:

    Put yourself in the position of being a college trying to choose new students to accept.

    Colleges want students who will DO WELL. Students who can succeed and not drop out, not be gum in the cogs, students who will finish four years and consider grad school. Students whose grades qualify them for loans. THAT is the best customer for a college. That's why they're picky. Finite number of spots...so they pick the kids they think have the best chance of success.

    Colleges have to look at three things....transcripts, test scores, and essays and recommendations.

    Pretend you're in college admissions. You see transcripts that say Pre-Algebra, Honors Algebra, Algebra, Honors Algebra Two, Algebra Two...

    You would tend to put these in order, right? The honors kids are doing a bit more than the regular kids, algebra two is more impressive than algebra one...right?

    Wrong.

    When the colleges actually start testing kids....they discover that the SKILLS taught in these classes are VERY different state to state. In some states...a kid getting A's in Honors Algebra Two could not compete with the skill level of a kid in anther state getting C's in regular Algebra Two.

    This is because there is no common standard.

    To the college.....it's a crap shoot. They have no idea what skills are actually taught in those classes or how prepared the students are.

    When they see "I went to school in a common core state" the college will know EXACTLY what was covered, what skills the kid had to master to pass the class....and it will also be reflected in their common core aligned ACT and SAT scores.

    In other words...kids in common core states are going to be a better gamble for colleges. They'll be the preferred customer.

    Where that leaves kids from states that dump common core...is a little scary.

    Sure, kids with great test scores are still going to get accepted. But how do you get an exceptional test score when you've been handicapped to take the aligned test?

    Gonna be an interesting next few decades.
     
  20. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    And WE get it, too. You think CC is the next best thing to buttered toast, that it will make everything roses for our education system. And nothing will change YOUR mind. But we went through this before with Outcome Based Education, and we'll go through it again. It stunk then, and it STILL stinks.

    You are right about one thing. There will be "common" standards. And in our society today, that means the LOWEST possible bar, not a high one.

    A "good" college? What is that? Obviously in your mind it's one that accepts CC. My kids don't need an Ivy-League education. And there's too many states turning it down for it to be accepted.

    And yes, I get ACT/SAT mixed up all the time! It was a respectable score, and I am VERY proud of her, all the more so because in many ways I feel I've "failed" with her when it came to homeschooling. Obviously, we did better than I thought!
     

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