You can write an award winning essay. You can do volunteer work with Mother Theresa, herself, and scrub the subway with your toothbrush in your spare time. You can coach children with disabilities in an economically challenged neighborhood on how to walk service dogs for veterans! But if you don't have the SCORES...you're not getting in to the Ivies and Top public universities. And you're probably not even getting into the better second tier colleges close to home! Just fact. And it's not changing. Why isn't it changing? Here's a brief explanation: The four components of admissions...serve the following purposes: 1. (5% of consideration) Your volunteerism and extra curriculars prove you're not a problem child. They prove you can get along with others, that you value community, and that you can play by the rules. The whole point of looking at EC's is picking kids who won't be disciplinary problems, won't shoot the school up, and can fundamentally communicate. The only real function of the ECs is a nice note from home that says....this kid's ok. If the kid manages to marry his EC's to his academic interests he gets points for taking his career path seriously and having ambition. If he has EC's that suggest "leadership" he gets points for maturity and independence. EC's are important for proving to the college that you're not a psycho and that you might have some redeeming qualities that could make the campus more pleasant. But beyond that, colleges don't give them much weight. Same can be said of letters of recommendation. EC's and Recommendation letters are VERY important for scholarships, but generally not particularly important to admissions. (see Note below for a very rare exception) 2. The Essay. (15% of consideration) Think of it as your interview. It's not about cramming in artificial vocabulary and demonstrating your mastery of grammar as you write something sterile for English class. The Essay has very little to do with writing per se. The essay is about expressing your ideas and MARKETING yourself. Your essay is your SALES PITCH. Here's a tip on essay writing: Use every word in the word limit, but don't go over the limit. Writing too little is seen as not taking advantage of your opportunities. Writing too much is seen as being rude and taking up time that you were not offered. If it says 500 words, give them 500 words and polish them until they gleam. But never forget...the BEST sales pitch ever....cannot sell an inept product! 3. The meat. Your transcript. (25% of consideration) Your class choices show how tough and ambitious you are academically. Your GPA shows how successful you are at chewing what you bite off. Your class rank shows how well other people do compared to you in the same situation. The transcript gives some vague idea of what was taught.....but it's not a true representation of the skills you left school with. 4. THE ALL IMPORTANT SCORES. (55% of consideration) They're the proof. They're impervious to emotion, special favors, and academic dishonesty. They transcend the transcript...because "honors algebra" can mean ten different levels of difficulty depending on the school you attend. Your scores are the HARD EVIDENCE of what skills you bring and how much success you have already attained in your studies. Here's the real reason why kids admitted to Ivies have high scores (and no, it's NOT because they're the only ones who apply) Kids admitted to Top Schools have high ACT/SAT scores because schools post on their admission pages PLAIN AS DAY: Accepted students generally score 28-34 on the ACT.* or in the case of a second tier school: Accepted students generally score 24-28 on the ACT.* or in the case of a school that is DESPERATELY trying to attract applicants because they don't have any: There's no competition for admission....so Scores are not required! Bring money, we don't care what kinda student you are! *Scores I listed for top and second tier are a rough average of what these schools might expect. Individual schools will post their own expectations on their admissions pages...some a bit higher, some a bit lower. Note: an anomalous .5-1% of students who do not have the scores are admitted because they bring a special talent...rare athlete, rare band musician, rare award winning artist. These people are usually sought out by the school, and do not get accepted through general admission without this special approval.
When will you realize that the majority of us really don't care to get into a "top 100" or "Ivy League" school? I don't care WHAT they want or don't want. Where exactly do you get your figures? Yes, you need the scores, but the scores alone WILL GET YOU NOTHING. It works both ways. If you got top scores and nothing else, the scores are worthless. My children don't need the prestige. They'll do fine where they are at.
:mrgreen: I think I missed the part where I said "This is for Jackie...she MUST read this and take heed!" LOL! Not my intent. Take what you like, leave the rest, for heaven's sake! The thing I like best about you, Jackie...is that you're sort of fiery and outspoken and fiercely proud of trusting your instincts when it comes to your kids, and also very proud of their accomplishments! You're stubborn and funny and I think all those things are fantastic. In fact, I'm often surprised you don't give me (my positive intention?) more credit given our similarities! :wink: The information I've given could be useful to anyone whose kid will be applying to colleges. Top colleges, Middle tier, local publics, privates with demand...anywhere you encounter competition. It applies to all kinds of admissions. I'm putting another perspective out there because I think mschickie's advice that "schools are moving away from test scores, and ECs are just as important" could GROSSLY mislead a parent reading this site, and potentially hurt their kid's chances of getting into the college they want. That bothers me. A lot. It is so hard and discouraging to make up for lost time and effort...when you might have achieved what you needed if you had the facts. Here's my compromise: To have TRUE and ACCURATE information on what will be required of your kids...go to the ADMISSIONS PAGES of the schools your kids are interested in, and educate yourselves about what it takes to get in. Better yet, go visit, take a tour, talk to a counselor. Specifically ASK what kinds of grades, scores, and ECs your child needs to have a good chance at admissions.....as far in advance as you can. Know what you're working toward. Don't listen to misinformation when your kid's future hangs in the balance. It's too important. Planning ahead with the correct information can save you time, money and frustration. (don't take my word for it...or anyone else's) How's that?
I can tell you I personally know someone who was accepted into Brown, got almost a full ride scholarship and had very lack luster test scores. She was not very good at taking standardized tests. She did have plenty of other things going for her (especially grades) and was able to write a great essay. She graduated from Brown and then went to Wheaton for her MBA. Just because I believe something is a trend for the future does not mean that it is happening now in all cases. Trends for the future can change in an instant. For all we know in 10 years there may be a totally different method for college admissions. Schools may band together and have their own test or required on line class for admissions. Who knows exactly what the future holds. Just as the common application started out small and is now very popular among colleges new ideas and ways of evaluating potential candidates for admission are also changing. I fully suspect there to be a new set of "rules" before dd starts looking at colleges in 5-6 yrs. My point is not to worry about CC and the tests. If you teach critical thinking the content will not matter as much. If you are motivated you can learn how to do well on any of those tests. Schools do not so much care about the material you learned in school but your ability to learn the material presented in college. Tests currently are one (just one) way of trying to gauge how well a student will be able to handle the material presented. Homeschoolers do have an advantage at many schools because in the college admission circles they are perceived as self motivated and self learners (we know this is not always the case but that is a common perception among some of the more competitive colleges and universities) which is why some actively recruit homeschoolers.
If you want to know how bad Common Core really is, PLEASE watch this video. It's long, but worth the time! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si-kx5-MKSE
Thanks Lindina. I'm only 20 minutes into it (will have to view the rest later tonight), but have found it thus far to be both very informative and very disturbing.
Just realized I typed the wrong school should be Wharton. I always mix those two up. I have not checked out your video link but if it is the one I am thinking of it is fully of some very good information on cc.
Perfect illustration of what I just said, Lindina...thanks! None of the schools that have dropped ACT/SAT are top 100 schools. None of them have particularly competitive admissions. And even the schools that HAVE dropped the ACT/SAT requirement...if you go to their websites (For instance, go to Temple U's website)...they still encourage you to submit them. "While not required, we encourage you to submit ACT/SAT scores, particularly if your scores are greater than____" See? They still place terrific weight and importance on the scores....but when they're trying to fill up the dorms with paying customers, they bend the rules. If the demand and competition for admission were there...they be more selective....which would mean more weight to scores. But since they had a 36% four year graduation rate last year (Ouch!) they're doing whatever they can to generate interest.
Interesting article, esp. as it's not from a conservative source.... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-greene/how-the-common-core-lost-_b_5694139.html
Hey Jackie, how's the effort going in Ohio to reverse Common Core? I heard there was a lot of attention from the public, but that it was not expected to pass the Ohio Senate. In particular, I've heard a lot of criticisms for Representative Matt Huffman...who seems to be leading the charge against common core in Ohio. He seems unknowledgeable...and unprepared. As written, House Bill 597 (the bill to discontinue Common Core in Ohio) prohibits the state from withholding funds from a school district that chooses to not adopt new academic standards or state testing. Some have interpreted that as allowing districts to opt out of graduation tests, which would leave students unable to get a diploma. But Rep. Matt Huffman, R-Lima, a joint sponsor of the bill, said the intent is not to have schools avoid graduation tests. The bill does not yet say it, but Huffman said high-performing schools could be allowed to opt out of tests given in grades 3-8. “We don’t want them to have to keep taking tests just because they are an Ohio school,” he said. “There’s a group of schools where all the kids are high-performing and 95 percent of kids go to Ivy League schools. Do they need to take time on these tests?” He would not name the schools he was referring to. Personally...I'd love to know which schools he's referring to. LOLOLOLOL I'm pretty sure they don't exist....and I'm pretty sure he's going to get called on it.
There were hearings yesterday at the Capital. The head of HSLDA was there, but I didn't get to go. I think it will be turned down, thankfully!
I've been following it. For now...I don't think efforts to remove Common Core will be successful in Ohio.
I've been wrong a time or two. But in this case...you've gotta admit Huffman is doing a crappy job representing your interests. I don't want to see Ohio lose common core and handicap its kids nationally. We'll never agree on CC...and there's no reason we have to.
Crazy, there's very little I agree with you on, and right now I'm still quite upset with you telling me I'm a lazy parent.
I didn't tell you that YOU were a lazy parent, Jackie. I think you're a very good parent. I said that I feel SPANKING is lazy parenting. There are so many better ways to get a point across and correct a kid without the potential for negative side effects and accidental deaths. I DO feel this way. Others don't. I do. We can disagree about it. You later admitted that you seldom ever spanked your children. So what if I think spanking is lazy? If you're not much of a spanker...why would you take that so personally? Many people think my unschooling is lazy/wrong/crazy/etc. The world is full of opinions. Opinions are like armpits...everyone's got a couple. Sometimes they're lovely, sometimes they stink. But everyone has to ride the bus together. LOL. I really am sorry if I hurt your feelings. Not my intent. And yep...there is a TON we disagree on. And I expect there will be more. Doesn't mean I don't like you or don't think you're overall a pretty darned good mom. If it makes you feel any better, I was once called a "lazy parent" for buying my kid McDonalds between school and play practice for a few nights...instead of bringing her a healthier home-cooked dinner. Maybe the woman who said it was right. It was certainly easier to feed the kid McD three nights in a row, and it probably wasn't particularly healthy. But so what? You do the best you can, other people's opinions be damned. Am I angry at the person who told me that? Nope. So what if she gets really excited about food choices? I think she's a dietitian or something. Am I particularly hurt? Nope. She worries about kid's nutrition. It's pretty valid, and it's nice she's concerned. 2/3 of the kids at our school were overweight and a shocking number were obese to the point it affected their health. She probably just has a strong opinion because she worries and cares.
So....you want to bring it up on a totally unrelated thread....and tell me you're upset. But you don't want to talk about it. Alrighty then... Moving on.
