Talk me down from the ledge - I'm about to put Sam back in school

Ok ladies I have about had it with my daughter and am so ready to put her back in school.

Every single day is a constant struggle with her regarding math. EVERYDAY. I just can not do this anymore. I dread each day with her. She can't remember anything we've done. We get to a review problem and she just has no clue what to do. I want her to use her brain and remember and think things through but she just doesn't. She whines like a baby and wants me to just tell her how to do it. I have already told her how to do it over an dover again but each and everytime it is the same thing and I refuse to do it for her.

She is in 7th grade and should take more responsibility for herself at this age but she wants mommy to hold her hand through everything. Mommy has to remind her of everything everyday and I hate this. I feel like I am doing her a disservice by continuing to hs her. I feel like she needs to get out there and toughen up and think for herself.

I am at ther point where I am ready right now to take her and sign her up at the junior high and just keep Grace home and hs her. I HATE hs'ing Sam now and i use to love it. But this everyday struggle has worn me smooth out.

 

((((HUGS)))) Sorry I have no ideas for you on this one as my children are the age of your Grace. Only thing I can think of is to find a reward/concequence system that motivates her to do her work. Sorry

 

Can't say I have any super-duper advice BUT I can agree with you that it sounds like she needs to toughen up a bit and take some responsibility (but that's just based on your post)....of course, my kids have been known to say "I'm not fun" especially about school work.

My other thought was...does she maybe have a learning disability (or at challenge) in math. Has it always been a problem? The reason I ask is because we're in the midst of working with DD8 on some processing deficits thru OT and having her assessed by a psychologist next week. If Sam's issue is just stubborn-like issues than might be time to lay down the law. If it's truly a weakness that leans towards a learning disability, then that's a different issue altogether.

My DD8 is very smart BUT she definitely has some issues that weren't always evident until she just sort of "hit the wall" and it became apparent to me that it was more than laziness (which is how it seemed and still does sometimes)...but it's not. It's frustration and adversion tactics because it's just hard for her to process the info and recall it (even though she knows it...just takes more for her to access the info in her brain).

BIG HUGS!!!! Maybe take a day off from math and regroup for tomorrow?

Rhonda

 

I hate to say it, but it sounds to me like both of you need a break.

Not from homeschool though. Do you really think she will magically perform if you send her to school?

Not likely.

It sounds to me like she is crying out that she is STRESSED about math and feeling overwhelmed.

Honestly, the reason we homeschool is to give our kids the time they require to learn.

Just my take away form your post - but it appears that she needs to take a few steps backwards and then NOT be judged harshly for it.

If she is not making progress, then she needs to relearn something.

Go backwards.

Kids will act out when they get stressed and they are not able to say:

"I can't do it. I need to slow down. I need more time."

As parents we need to learn to recognize when their actions are screaming those words.

 

Okay, first of all step back from the school you are standing too close!
Second of all I feel your pain! BUT I MAY have come onto a solution!

We are creating index cards that are clues to Math...
I am having ds write up the Formulas for Geometry, Rules for adding and subracting fractions, multpl. Div, fractions.. etc...
Decimals too!
Then we also have done two piles of Factors and Multiples..
We did 12 times tables through this, and got a Science board to put them all in cut pockets on.

He has a help at hands reach this way!
YEsterday it really proved useful as he did the common denominator fraction reduction etc... he just said OH! PUlled his pile out, realised it was the wrong pile and grabbed the other one!

He had the list to look at , copy off the numbers and decide what is LCD< and GCF, no prob!

I am doing this to help him, but also so I dont have to get frustrated. MY ds is 11 .5 so is probably at similar level as your dd.
IF you have her work on the project plan for two days at least of writing up the "Math CLues" and "Formulas" cards, and one for hte facors and multiples... it took us a long time because figuring it out is one thing then checking to see if its right is another hahah!
So.....
I will take a pic and post it on my weblog when I get it done with him today!
THen you can see what we have done and if you want to have yoru dd do one.. it makes a great fold it up and put it away LARGE SIZED folder that also blocks out sibling while working in cubicle form!

 

Tiffany here's a big (((((((((((hug)))))))))) first of all don't send her to ps you will not be happy. Will she learn any better NO. Second of all she is more then likely having trouble and telling you. Ok Tiffany I went through that last year with my youngest and what work for us is teaching text I really mean it, it's great the girl is running through it like nothing. So, have you thought of getting her a computer math class something for her to sit down and do on her own. It works it really does.
Also, Tiffany just to let you know I went through the same thing I mean it, my little one would never do nothing if I left the room to go to the bathroom and came back believe me nothing I mean nothing was done. So, yes it will change get something to hold her interst that is what I found that works for us. ALot of comptuer program learning. Its been alot better year this year and we are in the 8th grade.
I wish you luck and hope things turn out better for you and you don't have to send her back. But, remember we will be behind you in no matter what you decide to do for you and your family.

 

Is there anyone else that can do math with her? Maybe trade with another hs mom or have special time at night to work with just dad? Sometimes a different person might be able to explain things in a certain way that clicks better. I also think that looking into seeing if she has a learning challenge in that area is a good idea....if nothing else then to at least rule it out.

 

I am struggling with this to a lesser degree.
I have to continually remind myself that we spent 3 hours a night in tears from homework when ds went to public school.
For us it is writing and not math...but same sceanario. He can't remember how to spell anything. and he can't think of anything to write and at the end of it all, I am not sure who wrote the poem...him or me. I don't need to write poems!!!
He reads the same words incorrectly over and over and does not remember anything from what we read yesterday. Who is Gilgamesh...no idea.
He is immature, and I have to remember that he wouldn't "toughen up" in school, he would fall apart.

this is just an idea...how about going to a lifestyle math...keeping track of money...even a budget unit. Basic stuff that has real life application...then paint a room (pretend) and figure out the paint...and how much gas will you need to get to grandmas...and let her get some confidence in things that make sense. It might work, even at her age to go back to manipulatives.

(for writing we are doing letters and e-mail, because that he can see the point of.)

I am also really trying to get ds to learn how to look stuff up himself...it is a struggle. (he is 11, so we are a "year behind" you...and of course boys are a bit less mature than girls, so it may be apples and oranges.)

 

I read your post again and had an idea.

I took algebra in 9th grade...it was Greek to me. horrid, I never felt so stupid. My father dispaired. He commented that I would "get it" and then the next day not understand the same thing. I took it again in 10th grade and it was a bit better, but I did not do any math in hs beyond Geometry.
Then in College it all fell into place. I don't love math, but I understand it.
So maybe she isn't being stubborn. (maybe she is?!)
Maybe she really can't get it to stick.
I felt so stupid, and in a Psych class, we were discussing the development of abstract thinking. I was definitly a late bloomer. I think that current math texts tend to the abstract sooner than they used to. (I am noticing it in Saxon 6th grade)
My point is if it is not stubbornness, but developmental...all there is to do is wait. If it helps any, I have a good job and I use algebra almost every day.

 

I know that putting her in school won't do anything but cause her to fail math class. But she needs something to make her not such a baby about everything. Everything is always too hard. Every chapter is too long. Every day there is something.

Putting her back in school would screw everything else up too - our entire schedule and life will change. But what can I do? She needs to thicken her skin a bit. She needs to toughen up.

There isn't anyone else to do math with her. She may very well have some sort of learning disability. I don't know.

I printed off some sheets with things she was having trouble with and she is doing them now after standing in the corner for 10 minutes. I told her if she wants to act like a baby I will treat her like one.

I mean this is just too much for me. I don't know what to do. I just hate this.

 

come to my house and drink rum and coke with me while the girls roam around upstairs playing dress up.

What specifically are ya'll working on? Math topic?

 

Hugs! I think you've gotten some great advice! Math was a huge struggle for us last year; but this year, Teaching Textbooks has helped so much. Every once in a while I'll need to help him with something but for the most part, it's all right there: if he gets stuck, he just clicks the button for a clue, and he can go back and review the lecture as many times as he needs to. It has totally removed the power struggle we used to have over math.

I'd also be concerned about a problem with math. I was always in honors-level english courses, but remedial math. Even now it just doesn't "stick" and I don't know why. I'm just not wired that way. Maybe your DD is the same?

 

which math ar eyou using? I looked at yoru curric andit was unconclusive.... okay let me decipher that... which math are you using? I looked at yor Curriculuim and it was not clear what one you use?

 

It sounds like she might have math anxiety (something we struggled with until just this year - 7th grade) and maybe you need to find a different math program or just a different approach. Maybe try something that is a bit more hands off for you so she doesn't feel the need to "rely" on you to hold her hand, you know? Teaching Textbooks and DVD programs like that may be the answer. We started this year using the Keys to . . .series (we used fractions last year and ds score in the top 97th percentile in that section.) We are also using stuff like a spectrum review book to go over stuff that we may not have a good grasp on - and stuff like the keys to and spectrum may help because she feels more confident as it is review, not new stuff.

Also, we picked up a big book called "10 things all Mathematicians and Scientist should know" and it is a fun and interesting book about all the different ways we need math - it has small stories about things like the Challenger explosion, or why you would lose a bit to a friend about how fast you can ride your bike to school. It is more of a practical application of math and my ds gets a kick out of it.

Finally, you might let her decide what she needs to learn in math. Ask her what she wants to study for the week, month, semester. Ask her what she wants to work on. If she feels more in control, maybe that will help her attitude toward math.

One final thing - when Aden was struggling, we used the Quote from Edison on failure. When asked if he felt like he failed because he still hadn't made the lightbulb work after 2000 tries, Edison said "No. I just discovered 2000 ways NOT to make a light bulb!"

Try to work with her on learning from our mistakes. What did we learn NOT to do with this problem we got wrong? What did we learn from this lesson today- even if it was hard and we got all the answers wrong? This was a big step for us, to be able to say "Today we learned how NOT to do long division! How NOT to mulitply fractions!"

Best of luck!

 

Best advice so far!!! LOL!!

Seriously I have no idea what I am going to do. I don't want to put her in ps at all. I really don't! And I know it will help nothing but maybe my sanity.

We have tried taking a break from it but when we go back to it it is the same thing all over again.

We use Math U See. We are in Zeta this year which is all about decimals. But it isn't the decimals she has trouble with - she has trouble with things from last year with fractions. They are basically reviewed in each lesson. Each lesson you learn a new concept and then also review on what you previously learned. It is the review stuff she can't remember. She never knows what to do even though we do it everyday.

 

I feel your pain. I really do.

Last year, I tried first grade Saxon math with my daughter. It was a nightmare. I dreaded math time with a passion unlike any other. My daughter's inability to do any of it without constant help and explanation was only made worse by the fact that her younger brother was flying through it.

So, this year, we are doing first grade again but with a different curriculum. I am following the teacher's manual as precisely as I can. We do a review time and an overview using every visual I can get my hands on. The curriculum we're using this year is very colorful and visual, and she's done much better with it.

I've also learned to let her use whatever manipulatives she needs to get the job done. She can use counting blocks, a number line, her fingers, whatever. I've just accepted that she needs that stuff.

For the first time ever, I gave her a supplemental page of simple addition problems to do and set her to do the first column all by herself; she could use whatever manipulatives she wanted. I busied myself with something else, fully expecting that she wouldn't have done a darn thing by the time I returned. However, I was pleasantly surprised to find she'd not only done the first column but was working quickly through the second--- all on her own! Trust me, that was unheard of in any subject, let alone math, before that day.

Set her a very few problems to do on her own--- start at something very small, like 3. Give her access to whatever charts, manipulatives, etc. will help her. Give her plenty of time to do it and then some--- like 20 minutes--- so she won't feel rushed. If she hasn't done them, take something away--- a toy, game, privilege. Then, give her 15 minutes to get them done. Again, if they aren't done, take something away.

This might help her focus and not feel too overwhelmed by a page full of equations.

 

I think she may have more of a memory problem than a math problem now that I think of it.

What do you think?

She can learn a new concept no problem and do the page or pages required but two lessons later when those same problem are on her page as review she can't do them. She can't remember the steps or what to do at all.

She also is very forgetfull at other things.

I can not tell her (for example) to put her laundry away, get the broom for me and pick up her shoes. She will only do one thing and forget to do the rest.

If I am in the shower and someone calls she will not remember to tell me. She does this all the time. My dh will call, she will answer and then two hours later he calls back and she goes "oh I forgot he called a long time ago".

Okay the more I think about this the more I think I have discovered a whole new issue with her. Maybe, just maybe, it isn't math at all but something in the way of memory problems?

I'd like to know everyones take on this.

 

Have her start writing things down. Let her lapbook the steps to complete her math problems and then let her refer to that until it just magically sticks in her memory. Keep a notepad by the phone so she can write down phone messages and she won't have to remember them. Give her a small notepad and pen that can hang around her neck or on her belt loops that she can use to jot down things that she needs to remember. I used to have very much the same problem...I could remember a concept long enough to take the test on it but after that I forgot it all. I've gotten much better but it took years of writing everything down to retrain my brain to memorize things.

 

I had this issue with my oldest this week and he is a math whiz.

I backed him up to Delta and yesterday his math was done in ten minutes with no tears and no struggle. The rest of his school work went better as a result.

He does have learning disabilities - the Autism being the primary but I fully believe he has some sort of reading problem I cannot get anyone to tell me how to indentify or help. If he were in school again he would simply drown.

I was concerned at the end of second grade when they insisted on promoting him though his reading was poor. In the fourth grade (before we pulled him) he read at a 2.3 (yes second grade, three months) level. He can't sound out words, says words that aren't there and basically struggles through the whole thing.

And he's having the same trouble as your daughter with the fractions. He will not read carefully enough to realize what he needs to do. I caught him multiplying a problem he was supposed to be adding.

I started him on a remedial phonics program and have noticed his math is awesome if it isn't a multi step problem. That's where his breakdown is.

I hope some of this rambling has helped you some.

Peggy

 

I am telling you make these cards up! Ds said it works great Makes math easier! he is working with fractions , stuff he knows but was so frustrated about it we were back to tantrums and "whats math?" attitudes, He said its easy!
" Me? I think its easy!" Lol
I will take photos and post them on my blog later today or tomorrow, take a break from math tomorrow if you can!