Talk me down from the ledge - I'm about to put Sam back in school

This is part of my DD8's issues. Her issues became more apparent with writing and spelling versus math BUT math takes her longer to finish than most children her age.

She scores in the 99th percentile on fill in the bubble achievement tests but in a timed written test, we know she would not do well. She's having psycho-ed testing on Tuesday to help us determine if her processing issues may be hampered by attention ones as well (although if she has ADD it is mild). Most of her processing issues...many like you described....seem like attention ones only because she compensates by seeking distractions because its just too hard for her. She has been diagnosed thru OT with motor delays and processing deficits. It's not an intelligence issues but more a processing. She's never been good at multi-step directions either.

As for fractions, my oldest used Keys to Fractions (relatively cheap) and it helped a lot for her initial intro to fractions. We didn't finish it because she started liking it better in her Horizons book but they were very useful.

Gotta run to her OT appt but feel free to PM later if you want to compare what I noticed with DD8 versus yours if you think that would help.

(((HUGS)))
Rhonda

 

Teacher Mom, I think that is a great idea. I will start to use that. My ds is in 8th grade also and seems to want me there to "help" him do every aspect of school. I have tried every which way to help him. I think Tiffany, you should try it, too. I like the idea of the pencil and notebook tied around the neck, too. She sounds just like my ds. Praying that something that has been suggested works, if not, go to JenniferErix's house, I'll meet you there

 

I think you are on to something, Tiff.

My oldest has A.D.O.S. =
Attention. Deficient....... OOOOH! Shiny!

Seriously, the boy has done this LIVE in front of us so many times....


Anyway......

Some people have a problem with subjects because there seems to be no end or point to them....

Ever been on a long journey, that you have never been on before, and you have NO MAP and you wonder if the trip is EVER going to end, and you begin to question the drivers MENTAL capabilities for wanting to drive THIS far out in to nowhereland???

Math is sometimes like that for kids.. They have no MileMarkers to let them know where they are...

My kids are like that so we did this....


I literally walked my boys to my stairwell and SHOWED them how math is based on building blocks....

I told them to go to the tenth step.
They did.
I then told them to look down and see how high up they were.... Then told them to come down.
Then we noted how far UP that tenth step was.

They were then instructed to get to the tenth step withOUT using the other nine steps.
They laughed, and said we CAN'T mom! It is toooo far.

Well of course it is...
So, what do you say we make some steps to the tenth step, won't that be easier?
Yes, they replied....

Ok, so we talked about what we could make the steps out of. ....materials... and such...
I suggested we use sticks from the backyard. They agreed and so mentally we imagined building sticks into stairs...

Now....
Can you walk up those stick stairs to get to the tenth step?
Yes. It does get you there.
But what about as you get older and bigger and you have to run faster up the stairs. (Because you WILL get older and bigger) and school work goes at a faster pace)..

OH!
So we imagined what would happen to those quickly made stick stairs if we were bigger and had to stomp up the stairs...

Right, they would break. And no getting to the tenth step.

So what is the solution that will get us to the tenth step, no matter how big we get or how fast we need to get there?

"Make them SOLID.!!"
EXACTLY!

So, we need a solid foundation to build each step on...

We stepped together one the first step.
This is the numbers step. First we learn our numbers.

Then we stepped on to the next step and said... Now we learn about greater than and less than and the order of numbers...

Then on the third step (Again, while giggling together)...
Addition and Subtraction. A set of twin brothers who are the opposite of each other and who love to UNDO what the OTHER one just did! But they are the BASIC operation of EVERY math problem...
So when we are learning our Addition and subtraction, we need to be sure we completely understand that step. MAKE IT SOLID!

On to the NEXT step....
And Multiplication and Division are brothers as well that are opposite sides of the same coin. You need one and the other, If you understand one, you will understand the other.... Multiplication is the opposite action of division and division is undoing of multiplication. They love to undo each others work, it makes them laugh. (To this my twins were giggling uncontrollably) But multiplication and divisipon are a step UP from Addition and subtraction because they are SHORT CUTS of Addition and Subtraction... so they make your job EASIER!! (Yea from the boys). So we want THAT step to be what? "SOLID!" Right...

Next step.... Fractions... which is really a fancy word for division... Bottom number tells us how many parts we have all together, the top number tells us how many we are pointing out...

Then comes the decimal points.. Which are VERY related to fractions. But instead of being opposite sides of each other, like addition and subtraction are.. or the way Division and Multiplication are... Fractions and Decimal points are more like Identical Twin brothers who choose to have different hair cuts... They both speak the SAME language and SAY the SAME thing, they just choose to do it differently.. one is a cool kid on a skateboard (Fractions) the other is a computer nerd into bits and bytes (Decimal point).
Nail these guys down and you are pretty much a genius! Make it SOLID!

What is next? Negative numbers!
Whoooooo Hoooooo!
Don't let them scare you , they are simply the same numbers you see on a thermometer.. they just like to pretend they are ALL THAT and a bag of chips.... But we know better... hahahaha!

Math goes on like this for a while, but if you know where you are and where you are going, you can enjoy the ride more.. and complain about the trip it self, less....

So, what is the tenth step? Algebra.
And without a base foundation of solid steps to get to it, we will eventually fail before reaching it.




This is what me and my third grade boys discussed while Physically walking UP and Down the stairs together to visualize the problem and solutions...

They get it now, and we now understand how math is related.

They needed that because it put math into perspective, and was no longer this constant never arriving journey to nowhere land called math.

Ok, hope that helps, sorry for it being so long...

 

Wow, Jennifer, you are the genius!!! Did you think this up all on your own? I think it is a great way to explain it. Thanks - I can even use this for Elijah - in any subject we do. Again, thanks!!!

 

Jen I wish you were my teacher in school...man I so would have "got" math if you were. I am horrible at math to this day...but I'm hoping that starting over with my boys using MUS will help me learn math too.

 

we use pizza for fractions too cause ds and I love pizza, so we divide up the slices and compare pizzas,

 

I like the stairs thing, would have come in handy if we had stairs, but we dont.. so we used what worked for us, I think thats the key you are sayin right Jen? Use what you have?

 

Ok...I have not read past this post yet. I wanted to answer before I get off track.
Dr. M. Levine - The Myth of Laziness.
and A Mind at a Time.
I read the second one for a child psych class. It describes this exactly. I have wanted to get ds tested, but it is 3500$$ (plus a trip to NY or North Carolina)
However, I am thinking that at least getting a handle on the "root" problem has been helpful, even if I am left to cobble together my solution.
My approach has been, for the most part. a stab at patience. (it has been a learning process for me too) We are taking it back to the basics of organization, and how to look back in the book find the explanations. taking notes (we are struggling with that.)
Understanding it is memory and filing memory that we are having trouble with, not "stupid" or "lazy" all though sometimes I don't do as well with that.
Hey Jen....I want to come too. (for the rum and coke)

 

Thanks Guys,
But yea. I mean use what you have.
Besides, if you wanna use the stairs analogy excersize on your kids, just go to the library or city hall or anywhere there may be stairs where you are...

It was really just a moment when I saw their frustrations and just grabbed them and said, look guys, Here is where we are, we are going to be doing math for the next 10 years, at LEAST..
GRoan...

I suddenly realized that they were breathlessly looking for the OFF ramp, and whinning because the ride never seemed to end...

They needed a mile marker system to show them where they are how far they have come, where they are going and WHY WHY WHY...

They WHY is the biggest part for many kids for sure...

When I explain that learning each new step makes the previous one EASIER, they liked that..

But the smart one states the obvious: "So why don't we just jump to the top one and do THAT one?"

So I replied.. Sure.. Hop to step 16...
He couldn't..///
EXACTLY, we NEED the other steps to GET to the other stuff..

Ok, anyway, yea, pull this outa my rear one day when we were having a "Where are we going with this anyway" moments...


Give them mile markers to know where they are.


This did not cure any learning disabilities..
It simply quelled a current (For us) and often for others attitude problem that most kids face at some point in time, when it comes to math.

But learning that many math concepts are twins that undo each other, or that say the same thing only differently was a HUUUUGE leap for my kids.

 

Wait!
Did I just type all of that and totally gloss over that some were taking me up on the come over a visit with rum and coke??

I am stuuupid!
Come on over!

 

Wow.

All of you have such wonderful ideas and you have all offered such great support!

I think I need to go back through this thread a couple times and read each idea again.

Teacher Mom I love the idea of the cards! I think Sam would like that too.

She gave me a big hug a minute ago and said "I love you mommy. Why is it that we get along so well all the time except for during school?" I just said I didn't know, gave her a kiss and told her we both need to work on things.

I need to work on how to help her work on her issues. Make sense?

She and I are having a sleepover tonight. Just me and her in her room doing girly things and talking about anything and everything. Maybe just maybe we can at least begin to figure it all out. We have no school tomorrow because it is my birthday and I am taking them out of town to grandma's for the weekend. 3 days off I hope will do some good and the sleepover will give us mommy/daughter time hwich may help too.

 

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
Whose watchin the kids while you and I paint the town red???
Hahahahah!

 

Jen
(today I am queen of the double post)
You are a genius.
I sent Jazz down the steps and read your post.
"oh!" He said (the same boy who 5 min ago said math was boring) "I never thought about it that way. That's cool"

and we got around to negative numbers...and I said they are like a -5 and -10 are sitting around saying...it's too cold, and I am bored and this is stupid. Those are some NEGATIVE numbers. ha ha.
but really I just read your post. thank you.

 

Thanks!

The kids are going to my parents for the weekend. Hubby and me, my best friend and her partner are supposed to go have dinner and play pool (somehting I have not done in about 10 years!) on Saturday night! Wanna come????? The more the merrier! Bring the rum and coke!! Never mind we will order it while we play a game of pool. We are actually going to celebrate me and my best friends bdays. Hers in 9 days after mine.

Oh yeah my mom's bday is Sunday and Grace's is the 28th. Lots of January bdays!

 

I love it!! How funny! That actually goes along with what we learned today in logic about equivocation of words. Haha!

 

Tiffany, how long of a break did you guys take for the holidays? Is this your first week back? Granted, this may be a problem from before break but getting back into the groove may be part of the problem. We are definitely having that problem this week. That and appts have TOTALLY messed up this week. Maybe take a week of only review and find out how much she truly doesn't get and how much is laziness. I'm still blown away from time to time the things I take for granted my dd knows and it turns out she doesn't.

I just went back and read a few of your posts I missed earlier. The "forgetfullness" reminds me so much of Joyce! If it's something she really wants to be doing, she can totally focus without a problem. I've even had her tell me a few years ago "Mama, I WAS listening to you but I didn't hear you!" and I actually understood what she meant. I would love to find something to make her more focused. I would blame it on the age but this is something I've had to work with her on since she was little. I remember when she was small I would tell her to "listen to me with your eyes". I could tell her mind was going on everything except what I was saying.

 

Crap on a stick!

"Negative numbers being "Negative" abou tthings...
Tooo Funny!

hahahahha

Thanks for that.
I will have to use that!
hahha

 

On a stick?!! eewwwwwww.
Now there is a mental picture:shock:

 

It is a "Fix" for something else on a stick that I used to say....


My sister in law makes me spit out my milk through my nose, every time she replaces "Jesus Christ" with: "Cheese and Crackers!"

 

Jen, my mom did not allow any type of replacement words when we were growing up so imagine my shock when I heard her start using "sugar tit" in place of something else! I'm usually pretty good in not using "cuss" words but picked up one in Germany that stuck with me. Well, when my ds was around 2, we were in the checkout line and he started sing-songing the word. I hear a chuckle behind me and turn around to see this tiny, elderly woman. She said that her mil was German and had taught her cuss words in German!