Hi, I just wanted to respond to the question about children adapting to the real world after college: Like everyone else, I have no stats for you, although I would be very surprised if they weren't out there. But here's something to think about: in the real world, we work, play and interact on every level with people of all ages. School is the only place where it is seen as normal to interact almost exclusively with same age peers. So how will this artificial envrinoment prepare our kids for the real world?
Jen, I see what you're saying. I didn't mean to sound harsh either, thanks for taking it in the intent I meant it!
Well first I pick hs. I believe my son has more time to interact now then he did when he was in ps. He interacts with people of all ages. He has the time to learn from them, young and old. Right now hs is whats right for him.
notsure, I came across these articles regarding socialization or aka adapting to the real world. Hope they are helpful. This one shows of some studies that have been done. I do not know if they are hard facts but nonetheless, I find it interesting. http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000000/00000068.asp This one deals with the homeschoolers who have grown up and statistically, how they are doing out in the real world. http://www.hslda.org/research/ray2003/Socialization.asp This page will lead you to other information regarding socialization and living in the real world. http://www.googlesyndicatedsearch.com/u/hslda?q=socialization This is about how many homeschoolers excel in college. http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000000/00000017.asp This is different information regarding college and obstacles homeschoolers have gone throught to get to colleges. http://www.googlesyndicatedsearch.com/u/hslda?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=college Click on any state to find the laws and regulations for each and the different options opened to homeschoolers. http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/default.asp This is Home School Legal Defense Association's home page. They are a Christian organization but they support both non-Christians and Christians equally in court because they are firm believers in the parents raising their children as they see fit. They are the authority on homeschool laws. They are lawyers who defend homeschoolers. You can read about their cases as well. http://www.hslda.org/Default.asp?bhcp=1 Patty
I may be a bit more liberal than you (I'm not really sure that schools are "pro-abortion"; however, I do agree with you that a lot of schools do not teach kids to think. On the other hand, one area that I think American kids do well are the ability to question authority. Here, kids can protest and get petitions signed about things that they do not support. That kind of thing does not happen in countries like China. Then again, depending on the issue, this may be a negative thing. In corporate America, I see the most successful people as the ones who ask the questions and challenge the "old" ways. Too many times, people get stuck in their old ways of doing things. As for the other issues you bring up, I need to do some investigation. I do not know what is taught about sex in my state. Although, I think a lot of what kids are doing today is due to the American culture (MTV, etc) and not necessarily what teachers are teaching. Thank you for your response!
Opportunities Yea, kids can be cruel. However, I found the world outside of high school to be tougher. Going off on my own to college, and dealing with all excitement of being a freshman was challenging. How do you teach your child to deal with the challenges of going away and negative people in the world? I see your point on more opportunities in PS. On the other hand, the PS in my area have a lot of kids. Which means, unless my kids excel in something, they will get cut. I've heard that even things like Yearbook are competitive. However, if my kids excel in that environment, they are likely to excel in any environment. So do I take the chance and hope my kid excels? Or, so I HS and not put my kids in that situation? I honestly don't know the answer. Thanks.
Yes, but... Sure, I see your point. But there are probably others, like me, who have young children or are looking at options for their kids. I'm going to ask questions that people may consider hot button or controversial issues. Not because I'm trying to make people mad. Rather, I'm looking for what is best for my family and my children. I can assure you that whether I choose PS or HS, I'm not looking for a baby sitter. Rather, I want my children to learn personal responsibility, the ability to question, an understanding of science and math, among many other things. My goal is to give my children the most opportunities in life and teach them how to be successful and change the world for the better. We may be a generation that hands our children a poorer country that is much worse than the one we inherited. Currently, my wife stays home with our children and they participate in many clubs (religious and non-religious). We are looking at both religious and pubic preschools and other options. Unless this forum is ONLY for people who homeschool, I will continue to ask questions until my family decides which is best for us.
Interesting... I know that inner city schools are pretty bad. Perhaps I am lucky -- being white, middle class, nobody that I know of in my school (midwest) didn't know how to read. If students who can't read are graduating from elementary school, there is a problem. Unfortunately, based on other research I've done, people who can't read are likely to end up costing us a lot more money in the legal system. That is another issue. I've never heard of teaching any type of religion (outside of religious studies courses) in public school. I guess is all depends on where you live and who your parents are. Thanks!
In college I'm looking for data on the success of hs kids in college rather than post college. Your point is valid about post college. Thanks for your response.
Notsure, this forum is NOT exclusively for homeschoolers. We have some people here, like you, with younger kids that are still undecided. We have some children here that go to public school, some in private school, some going to on-line charter school. So no one is "kicking you out" because you don't fit the "proper" mold! Some of us need to be patient about answering honest questions. As far as YOU using the government schools as a "babysitter", the fact that you're coming here investigating the matter shows me that you are a concientious father that is concerned about what is best for your children. I would like to suggest a book to you. I can't find my copy right now. I think I lent it out to someone a while ago and can't remember who, so I don't have it handy to tell you the title. I THINK it's called "None dare call it education" or something like that. I'll look it up for you. It's fairly short, and goes about documenting the "social agenda" (for lack of a better term!) being pushed in today's schools. Of course, some are better than others, but it still shows the overall TREND. I will look up the name for you.
Just so ya know, I live in a middle class society. I think that sometimes the kids in the inner city really get messed over when it comes to their education. Anyway, I didn't want you thinking that all middle class schools are ok. Also, these kids graduated high school and didn't know how to read.
It would seem to me that if a kid graduates without being able to read both the school and the parents dropped the ball. Even though I worked full time third shift I still worked with my oldest during the summers.
Notsure, I know for a fact that having the right parents will get you more. There's a family at our church that pressed their kids' teachers to go above and beyond what the other kids got, and you bet they did it. When spelling was pushed aside for the Approach of the Day one year, their boys still got spelling lists and tests. Mine couldn't, though. I guess I'm not opressive enough.. That is why I worked with him in the summers, to help him get what they wouldn't give him and the majority during the school year.
ABSOLUTLY!!! Just because a child is sent to a school doesn't absolve us of the responsibility of being a parent!!! DH and I went around and around that issue with my DSSs. He'd say, "I'll get the Youth Pastor to do that!" It would make me SO FRUSTRATED!!! I don't know how many times I told him that the Youth Pastor was NOT the boys' father!!!
I agree with you. If a child cannot read, then everyone dropped the ball. However, alot of the time (not all) parents feel that if they send their kids to school, then they have done what the could to get their child an education. They have the idea "If the professionals can't help them, what can I do?" I think alot of homeschoolers would consider ps if this wasn't the case and the ps really encouraged the parent to be involved.
Great point! This is exactly why many people do not think we can properly homeschool our children. They do not believe we are qualified. They have more faith in the public system then in themselves as parents who know their child's needs. When Toni was in 5th grade, we tried to have the teacher hold her back a year because she was struggling with most subjects, regardless of how much time we spent with her doing her homework. She was so far behind. It was a constant game of catch up. She would bring home so much homework because of her struggles in school. Everytime we tried to help her in one area, the teacher was already sending home new work that the class had moved onto. So Toni was constantly struggling to keep up. I couldn't believe that the school would not honor our request, being her parents. This is one of the many reasons we decided that Emma was going to be homeschooled. This way when we come across an area that she struggles with, we can cover it until she understands it. Patty
If you are as interested as you sound in your childrens' education, then I think your kids can excel no matter where they go, as long as you stay this involved in their lives and education! That is a very important part of growing up---love and spport from parents! A lot of kids don't have that! Your kids are blessed that they do! They can excel in ps if you put them there, but I don't think it's an either/or (excel or homeschool), which you probably didn't mean, but it sort of sounded that way. Kids that homeschool, especially with parents who are consistent, caring and concerned for their welfare, can excel also, and WILL succeed! There are very many opportunities for music, sports, and many other activities for homeschoolers! Some places have more available than others, so you'd have to do research on what areas have what you're looking for for your children. Trust me, you'd find it! But it may be a ways away from you. Would you be willing to move to an area that had available what you wanted for your children? Part of what you would need to consider, imho, would be how family oriented you are? Once your children go to ps, they will begin to become peer oriented. Your authority can in many ways be undermined as they get older. However, those who do send their kids to school CAN volunteer at the school a lot to keep in touch with, and show support for, their child(ren). I'm pro-homeschool, I wouldn't have it any other way!!! My 15-yo and 13-yo boys are a great and strong part of the family. We have not been completely issue-free, but the "issues" that we have had are VERY minor compared to dealing with drugs, alcohol, etc.!!! That said, if I see parents who send their kids to ps or a Christian school involved with their children in their education, and taking an active part in their childrens' lives, then I would support them in their decision! But if homeschooling were possible, I think that would be the best choice!
Yes, kids CAN excel in public school. but I also feel the climate of ps is such that it's difficult, even with loving, caring, nvolved parents. I know it is at my DH's school. And what they consider "excelling" simply means passing, with anything higher than a "D". Even the "A" students have a lot of that grade "given" to them. Example: My friend's daughter is a Sr. at a high school just up the road from where DH teaches. This one has a reputation of being a "better" school. Josie is in taking Honors classes. They were given long-term reading assignments over the summer, and had some sort of project to go with it that was to be turned in on the first day of school. Only two kids in the class did it over the summer. Instead of grading accordingly, the teacher gave them extra time to do it and then gave full credit to anyone who turned ANYTHING in. Now what does that say to the two kids that actually did the assignment over the summer? Do you think they'd do it again?i
Jackie, I agree with you. The two boys that we have are getting all O's (outstanding) in school. When they first arrived, I thought, oh good, I guess they are doing great in school. This last week, I found out that the 3rd grader doesn't know his math facts and he doesn't know the language that they are to be doing in school. He also doesn't write very well, printing or cursive. He doesn't space his words - nothing is readable. I was at the Goodwill yesterday and found a set of Hooked on Math for $6.00 - the only thing missing is the student books - I just purchased them on ebay. Total cost was $40. Not bad for the whole set, can't wait to use them on the 3rd grader. The 6th grader seems to be doing better, although I am going to be really keeping an eye on this. If I had the patience and curriculum for the boys, I would hs them too. They are falling through the cracks.
