I think he hit the nail on the head..

mommix3

mommix3

Active Member
http://www.myfoxla.com/story/22201163/duncanville-students-teacher-rant-goes-viral

Not exactly homeschool related, but I thought this young man made a good point. I'm sure some will think this was disrespectful, but sometimes things just need to be said.. What do you think???

Not the exact link but this will take you to the page.. You will have to scroll through to find the beginning of this story.. It's entitled "Duncanville student's teacher rant goes viral".
 
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A friend posted it last night. I think the boy was very much out of line. His attitude is just as much a problem as the teacher's. We are not in that class, we do not know that "packets" aren't the "best" way to teach it. DH taught computers. But when the kids were being difficult, he'd kick the class off the computers and hand out packets. The kids needed to learn that to work on the computers, they needed to listen and not act off the wall. And this guy seems to me to be one that expects everyone to cater to him.
 
If I'm not mistaken, this happened in a Texas public school and my son gets "packets" as well.. They correlate to the tests that the students must pass to graduate.. The tests are given every year. They are on a point system where the points from each year keep adding up. It doesn't matter WHAT their grade is in their class, if they don't pass those tests they won't graduate. The teachers don't teach.. They just watch over the class and grade.. All teaching is done with these "packets".. My son doesn't learn that way either.. So if they don't learn by reading them they aren't going to pass that test and won't graduate.. it's a lot of stress for these kids.. So no matter how hard they work in the class to do their school work and how high their grades are, there's a possiblility they won't graduate..
 
I had mixed opinions on this one. On one hand, yes, he was very disrespectful. But on the other hand, don't we wish more students were this passionate about their own education? He made some excellent points, but it could have been stated better.
 
The system in general is the problem.. This kid was right in what he said, but he should have brought it up another way.. And this is one of those one size fits all sorta issues that goes on in all public schools.. No fault of the teacher.. It's just how it has to be done to teach to the masses..
 
I'm just wondering what constitutes disrespect.. Is it because it's a child standing up to an adult?? He held his tone, didn't use cursing and his body language was relaxed.. I don't think he even showed a whole lot of emotion compared to any other teen that I've seen who is trying to get their point across to an adult.. You could tell he was passionate about what he was saying, but not to the point that he crossed the line. He wasn't in the teachers face.. BUT he did disrupt the class.. :/
 
I thought his whole attitude was disrespectful. And to be quite honest, I didn't think he was that passionate about what he was saying. He was just passionate at showing the teacher up. That's how he came across to me.
 
I have to agree with Jackie. I thought it was very disrespectful. As a former professional educator, I know my hands were tied on quite a few things that I simply didn't agree with. I did my best to work around those things, but some stuff is what it is.

I don't have a problem with his addressing the quality of teaching in the classroom. That's not what I found disrespectful. It's the fact that he didn't wait and do so when the room was emptied; he could have waited to speak privately with the teacher about his concerns. If he couldn't get satisfactory answers that way, then he should've gone up the ladder to the department head then to the vice principal then to the principal and so forth.

Part of education should also be social skills. In a business environment, you don't dress down your employer in front of the other employees [unless you're planning on walking and never coming back and never getting a recommendation]. You ask to speak with them privately, setting up a meeting time, and then follow up. There are respectful ways to express your legitimate frustrations about circumstances, and I just don't think chewing out the teacher in front of the other students and undermining her authority by doing so was the right way to go about things.
 
I do not know the full back story of why this student was lecturing the teacher, but a few of my thoughts...

1. I think as a general rule our nation (and certainly our school system) treats teens and children as if they are not people and should have unquestioning obedience to all adults and authority figures. Unquestioning obedience is dangerous. I never want my children to have unquestioning obedience to any human. Even adults and authority figures get it wrong sometimes.

2. I also respect should be continually earned. I think we should show elders, teachers, authority figures initial respect. But just because you are an elder/teacher/authority figure doesn't grant you endless respect and give you license to treat those under you as less than. If a cop pulls me over, I'll show him respect. If he comes to my window cussing me or slaps me, well then my respect for him is no longer valid. If a teacher curses at a student, then, sorry, you've lost my respect.

3. His mom is a teacher. My guess is, at his age, he's heard her complain about the system and has picked up on some of that.

4. Sometimes, let's be honest, if you handle a situation in a "respectful manner"...it's just not going to get the job done. Sometimes you do have to make a splash, go overboard, get loud. Even Jesus flipped some tables. Whether or not this young man tried to handle whatever the problem was in a "more respectful" manner before 'going off' on his teacher, I don't know. Handling it in a respectful wouldn't have made it to youtube though and we wouldn't be discussing it here.

5. This young man dropped out and then decided to go back to school. I think it's great he is passionate about his education. Could he have worded things a bit better? Sure. Could he have been less passionate? Maybe, but do want children to be less passionate about their education?

6. If she cursed at him, then...I think that gives him a little more 'right' to loose his temper with her. Especially if his initial question was genuine and respectful (which we will never know if it was or not) And, for a teenage boy, I think he handled himself quite well. Their brains aren't adult brains, impulse control and anger control, etc.

7. What if an adult/parent said the same things to the teacher about their child? In the same tone? Would people consider it just as disrespectful? Or would we applaud the parent for standing up for their child and against the broken educational system?

8. And my big problem with this- the teacher in question, was sitting at her desk, leaned back in her chair, propping her head on her hand and was using a disrespectful tone with the student as well. (rather than an authoritative tone I would expect a teacher to use in a situation like this)

I notice at some point her tone changes a bit, I'm wondering if she noticed the cell phone recording the events?
 
What She said :)
JosieB said:
I do not know the full back story of why this student was lecturing the teacher, but a few of my thoughts...

1. I think as a general rule our nation (and certainly our school system) treats teens and children as if they are not people and should have unquestioning obedience to all adults and authority figures. Unquestioning obedience is dangerous. I never want my children to have unquestioning obedience to any human. Even adults and authority figures get it wrong sometimes.

2. I also respect should be continually earned. I think we should show elders, teachers, authority figures initial respect. But just because you are an elder/teacher/authority figure doesn't grant you endless respect and give you license to treat those under you as less than. If a cop pulls me over, I'll show him respect. If he comes to my window cussing me or slaps me, well then my respect for him is no longer valid. If a teacher curses at a student, then, sorry, you've lost my respect.

3. His mom is a teacher. My guess is, at his age, he's heard her complain about the system and has picked up on some of that.

4. Sometimes, let's be honest, if you handle a situation in a "respectful manner"...it's just not going to get the job done. Sometimes you do have to make a splash, go overboard, get loud. Even Jesus flipped some tables. Whether or not this young man tried to handle whatever the problem was in a "more respectful" manner before 'going off' on his teacher, I don't know. Handling it in a respectful wouldn't have made it to youtube though and we wouldn't be discussing it here.

5. This young man dropped out and then decided to go back to school. I think it's great he is passionate about his education. Could he have worded things a bit better? Sure. Could he have been less passionate? Maybe, but do want children to be less passionate about their education?

6. If she cursed at him, then...I think that gives him a little more 'right' to loose his temper with her. Especially if his initial question was genuine and respectful (which we will never know if it was or not) And, for a teenage boy, I think he handled himself quite well. Their brains aren't adult brains, impulse control and anger control, etc.

7. What if an adult/parent said the same things to the teacher about their child? In the same tone? Would people consider it just as disrespectful? Or would we applaud the parent for standing up for their child and against the broken educational system?

8. And my big problem with this- the teacher in question, was sitting at her desk, leaned back in her chair, propping her head on her hand and was using a disrespectful tone with the student as well. (rather than an authoritative tone I would expect a teacher to use in a situation like this)

I notice at some point her tone changes a bit, I'm wondering if she noticed the cell phone recording the events?
Click to expand...
 
I saw a video the other day on FB where a 12 year old was asking a cop why he parked his motorized vehicle on the sidewalk. He was basically brushed off and the comments from others were mixed just as this is.. Because the "child" spoke up to someone who was in a position that you should respect, he was disrespectful.. I don't get that.. Sometimes you HAVE to stand up for what's right even if it's someone in a position of "power".. The teacher did reportedly curse at the young man.. All respect just went out the window..
 
I didn't hear the teacher "curse" him. Yes, I read the report that the kid "says" he did. But to be quite honest, I listened to the teacher simply "take" it from this guy. She didn't lose her temper or anything. Just repeated that he needed to leave. So the cursing is something I don't give credence to.

I also disagree that respect needs to be "earned". That's a cop-out in my mind. Heck, Phillip told his sister that *I* need to "earn" his respect, because he feels he should be able to run with the neighborhood kids 'til all hours this summer. And Rachael explained to him that the Bible tells him he needs to "honor" me, and doesn't say anything about us "earning" that. Yes, there are some people who are jerks, but have been placed in authority over you. I believe you need to RESPECT THE POSITION, if not the actual person. And teachers fall into that position. It is possible to disagree respectfully; he did not.

The young man dropping out and coming back means nothing to me, also. It could be he made bad decisions in the past, learned from them, and decided to try again. Or it could be that he got in trouble with the law and was told returning to school was a condition of probation. WE DON'T KNOW.
 
Yes, Josie, I would have considered this rude for an adult, too.

If my child were to respond to a teacher like this, I'd be hauling his butt back in there so quick to apologize...not necessarily for WHAT he said (though I'm not in a position to judge that!), but for his disrespectful attitude and for disrupting the class.
 
Jackie, I think there is a difference between honor and respect.

I think even bad parents should be honored, but not necessarily respected.

What the Bible teaches is relationships aren't one sided. Like the big debate about submissive wives, it angers women, but they miss the point that the husband is commanded to love his wife as Christ loved the church.

When it speaks of slaves it tells both the slave and the master how to treat the other.

Same with parents, yes the children are to honor them, but the Bible also says parents are not to provoke their children to wrath or anger. We are to nurture them. And raise them with respect in the Lord. (Eph 6:4)

Children can honor bad or even abusive parents without having respect for them.

Demanding unearned respect for authority figures of any kind is dangerous on every level. It gives the person in power no one to answer to. It allows them to abuse their position with no fear of reprimand. It's a recipe for an abusive situation.

What if cops didn't have to prove you did any wrong to arrest you? What if the courts didn't have to prove any wrong to convict you? Simply because a police offer and judge deserve unquestioning respect???

ETA: It occurred to me, I feel I should add....
I have great respect for Jackie and her opinions. From her posts I've read over the years, I think of her as a wise, God-fearing woman. I think of her as a Titus 2 woman....
 
Lol, thanks, Josie! I didn't take any offense of what you said; we can disagree in a friendly manner without it being personal!

I believe that I am responsible for my behavior, to keep it (as much as possible) above reproach. I believe God requires me to show respect for those He has placed in authority over me, if not for the person then for the position. I have no respect for Obama, for example. Yet I need to respect him as president of this country, because God has placed him in the position he is in. I still don't agree with him on many (most) issues, and I will still fight him on many (most) of those issues, but he is still the president. This is similar to the response of David toward King Saul. Saul had done nothing to merit David's respect, yet David felt guilty for thrusting a spear next to Saul while he slept. David still respected Saul as "God's anointed".

I do not believe this young man was speaking out of a pure heart. I believe he wanted to put down the teacher in front of the class. I believe his motives were totally selfish. The Bible says to "speak the truth in love". Perhaps if you can't do that, you would be better off being silent.
 
According to several students in the class, the teacher cursed at the student first. I also agree with every word Josie has said.
 
I think he was right and at the same time wrong.

Disrespectful- yes, but not as bad as some people. I think he should have addressed his concerns in a quieter way. However, sometimes being quiet means that no one really hears.

Valid points- Yes, the system is broken. Yes, some kids don't learn well with "packets" and no teaching. Yes, teachers should care about their students. However, I imagine that some teachers started out with great intentions and the system broke them down.

p.s. I didn't attend this school, but our graduation was held at their auditorium.
 
I think it's possible to respect the office if not the person. And I will absolutely stand by the fact that, if he were sincerely frustrated and genuinely wanted to see change, then he should have asked to meet with the teacher in private and had an adult conversation to address those issues. If that didn't give him the results he wanted, then he should've gone up the proper ladders to the superiors over her.

If he'd done all of the above to no avail, then I could far better understand his losing his cool. The reality of it is, he needs to learn how to address his frustrations- however legitimate they might be- with his superiors [in station] in a more meaningful way. If he tries that tantrum act with his employers, his behind will be kicked to the curb.
 
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