The people who don't ever hear the gospel of Jesus. When they die do they go to hell?? That don't sound like a kind God to me. As you can tell, I am NOT a lifetime Christian. Yes, I was raised in church and yes,I believe in Jesus and I pray to him but I haven't,until now, began to read my bible and begin a TRUE walk with the Lord.
I don't have verses in front of me right now, but I'll find them tomorrow if someone doesn't beat me to it. Basically, the Bible is clear that the gospel message is presented via nature. It's ingrained in our spirits to seek the Lord and, in doing so, He will come to us. In that respect, there is no free pass for those who do not hear the word preached by another human being. That's also why the Great Commission is so important.
Fact: God is just. Fact: God is loving. Fact: God does not desire for ANY to perish. Conclusion: Therefore, any who are sent to hell are there as a result of a just judgement by a just God. I can sit back and say what *I* think is or is not fair. But I am not God. I don't have His perspective, nor do I know the hearts of every man. Nor can *I* sit in judgement of HIM, which is, in sense, what we do when we tell him who can or cannot allow in His heaven. So I simply trust that He is just, and will judge each man justly.
After I was saved I thought of my dad, who died when I was 8. If he was saved he sure didn't act like it. I know a pastor came in and prayed for him, and I know others did, too, but did that get him salvation granted? I would hope God showed him mercy because of his ignorance, and allowed him into Heaven. I am fully aware that's not what the Bible says, though..
I can only tell you what my pastor told me years ago when I asked this question in regards to a family member... We do not know the condition of anyones relationship with Christ, it is not always obvious when someone knows Him. But the Word of God does say Beleive in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. I believe each person gets the chance to believe or not, and also that there will be those who for whatever reason choose not. All we can do is hope to see our friends and loved ones again in heaven, but I was also told there will be three things that may surprise us when we die and go to heaven... 1- who is there 2- who is not there 3 - that yes we are there! Even if we are pretty sure when we die we will hear God say "Well done my good and faithful servant enter thou into my rest" We will know for sure when we step into that realm. THe best we can do is present to them the Gospel and allow God to do the rest. I have been given an asureance that my parents knew the Lord, I prayed and told the Lord I needed to know and he answered me in a way I knew it was Him... LIke Gideon I prayed the prayer of the doubter with a hope that it was real. Also just like Gideon I followed God's direction in doing so. Listen for His voice, and trust God's direction in the Word about such things and each person, because it really is not for us to say if someone is saved or not.
I mean people who have never had the chance to be told of Jesus. What happens to them? Surely God wouldn't just send them away?? Is there an exception for those people?
I already started an answer for this. I'll come back with verses tomorrow (I was on my way to church earlier and am on my way to bed, now).
Again, I have to hold on to what I KNOW to be true about God...He is just, He is loving, and He desires for NONE to perish. I am not responsible for them, God is. I let Him make that call. Usually when this comes up, it is mentioned by a non-believer who is simply looking for an excuse NOT to believe. (No, I am NOT saying that's you!!! You are asking an honest question, and I think God respects honest questions!!!) But often the attitude is "How can I trust a God who is suppose to be loving and all, and yet He's willing to condemn all those poor, innocent people? Obviously, He can't be all that loving, so there's no way I'll believe in Him!!!" So when I'm asked, I tell them straight out that THEY HAVE heard, they KNOW, and therefor have NO excuse. The issue is then what are THEY going to do with the knowledge they have.
There are no exceptions. Jesus said in John 14:6 "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." It may not seem fair to us, but He is not a fair God... He is a just God. His ways are not our ways. But, while He did choose the foolishness of preaching (I Cor. 1:21), He is not bound by it. He chose us, we didn't choose Him. And He is able to reveal Himself to someone by the Spirit, if there is no one to tell them about Him. I need a better concordance, but somewhere it says that it's not God's will that any should perish. So I believe that somehow, someway we are all given the chance at some point in our lives to know Jesus. Lisa
Everyone has the chance, there is no person in the whole world who will not be given the chance at some point... there is scripture basis to back this up, perhaps Prairie mom or Deena could find it .. I know its in there someplace... that tells of the fact that the entire world even the ends of the earth will hear the Gospel.... even to the ends of the earth? Even the people who like me grew up thinking they didnt ever hear , realise that yes we did! I just never gave it thought, but with media today and missions everywhere even to the ends of the earth litterally! I have a friend who missionary evangleises to the jungles and the mountain tops so I know people are being reached.. approached or just plane seeing on tv the oportunity is there like I said before its our choice to listen. Let me just add what my pastor said----> we do not know what happens in the final seconds of thier lives when they stand before Him... But HE has known their lives and if they were searching I believe they will find him.
Lisa, I consider him a FAIR God. His justness makes Him fair. It's just that, unlike us, He has a perfect view of what is FAIR. It is our perspective of what is fair that's screwed up.
Jackie, you are on a roll! LOVE everything you said. In fact, sticking to that results in less questioning of God's love and character and more knowing of who he is. Now, don't get me wrong...questions are great! It just that Jackie's posts can answer any question you don't understand. lol. We are the ones with the flawed minds, NOT God. What we think is simply wrong if not lined up with God. We have to be willing to change our perspective in the face of a truly just God. I have always been told that no one dies without being presented with the saving knowlege of Christ. Have no verses on that one...just what I have been told. I hope someone can find some verses because I honestly am not sure where to look. Yet, I am sure that is why God gave us the chance to fulfill the Great Commission...so that none should perish. There are some missionaries who believe that once the gospel reaches all parts of the earth Jesus will return. AGain, typing out loud, not supporting any of this paragraph's ramblings just typing. lol
I know I say this a lot, but it's really been a help to me: Evelyn Underhill once said, "If God were small enough to be understood, He would not be big enough to be worshiped." Then Christ would have already returned. The Bible is clear that the gospel message is ever present in nature. And anyone who seeks Him will know His gospel. That means that it's already reached everywhere.
Again, Amie...I am typing out loud. Please don't anyone think that I actually agreed with that statement....the one about the missionaires. My pastor just mentioned how a missionary he met actually believed that. I found that curious. Amie is always catching me when I start to type and not think! LOL. Love ya girl! I know you are not trying to call me out. Or are you? LOL.
Oh, no sweetie. I know that you were just throwing around stuff that other people think. I wasn't so much responding to you as the idea in general.
Mommix3, I've had the same question. And I've had some of the same thoughts that others have posted here, though they've articulated them way better than I could have! Maybe what I'll share will be a repetition, but I'll join in anyway. It's a comfort for me to contemplate what "all-mighty" means. God can do anything! I agree with others that He is able to reveal Himself to each mortal. One of the ways He chooses to do so is by the preaching of the Word, and it's our wondrous priviledge to take a part in that through our words and our actions. We can be partakers in sharing eternal life! Another way is that His hand can been seen in history, the story of the world, cause and effect. There are also clues to redemption in each culture, I've read. For example, the Chinese pictograph for "come" is the symbol of a tree with the figure of a man on it, and on an extended branch on each side is another man--clearly the crucifiction! Another symbol depicts the Garden of Eden. (I spoke with a graceful young woman from Japan at a trade show where she was exhibiting items for sale across the aisle from us. This symbol was on a silk scarf she was selling, and I began to explain that I had studied how that God's remedy for sin was built into those ancient characters. She politely told me that it is currently taught that that man on the tree is Budda, who--curiously--gave birth to two children, one of which is on one side and one on the other.) Another way He reveals Himself is in nature. God's goodness can be seen in the perfection of a feather, for example, and evidence of His judgement can be seen by billions of fossils buried in rock layers, laid down by flood waters all over the earth. Clearly a "fall" has taken place and a judgement has taken place which mars the original perfection. To paraphrase Psalm 19, it says that the heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament sheweth His handywork. Each day speaks, and nighttime shows knowledge. In fact, there is no speech nor language group in the whole world where the voice of these witnesses is not heard. Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world... To me, this Psalm goes on to imply that by observing the fact that "God set a tabernacle for the sun" in the heavens, certain laws of the Lord can be observed. Certain attributes of His nature can be learned. V. 7 says "The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple." God's nature is reflected in His handiwork, which makes an impact in the lives of those who see. The Psalm concludes with "Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my strength and my redeemer." In the New Testament, Romans 1:20-22 affirms this idea: For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful, but became vain in their imaginations, and the foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools... And yet, Mommix3, after having used all those words, this still doesn't answer your original question about those who have never heard specifically about the one and only means of salvation--Jesus Christ. At this point I don't have a for sure and for certain general answer to that, but I do have a very special example to share of why I believe, along with the others on this thread, that everyone who seeks Him will be rewarded somehow: A number of years ago my husband had the opportunity to hike into some mountain villages in Mexico which had no roads leading to outside contact--only foot trails. He and a Mixteco Indian friend were carrying packs of Bibles to distribute. It was a several-day trek to reach the villages. One ordinary day on one of those ordinary mountain trails a very extra-ordinary thing happened. My husband and his friend met an old man--a very, very old-looking man, with a cloth wrapped around his waist and a bent walking stick in his hand. Of course, they stopped to talk and asked if he could read. No, he couldn't, but he knew someone who could. The men told him of how God came to earth as man and then died for our sins. Would he like to have a book which explained more about this? He replied something like this: "I knew you would come sometime, and I was hoping it wouldn't be too much longer. I am an old man now, as you can see. I have been asking God for many years to teach me more about Himself before I die..." He unrolled his ragged sash and emptied out the few pesos contained in it. "It's all I have," he said. "But I want to give it to you." The men started to protest, but he wouldn't hear it. He was more than happy to give all he had to hear of the way to heaven, and he went on his way rejoicing! Does every person in far-away places get a chance to hear of the Savior? I don't know. After having shared all this, I still admit, I don't know. But I have seen enough to know, like the rest of you, that God is good, and God is just, and God knows which hearts long to know Him. That is important to Him. He knows. He cares. That's why He lets the question haunt us. Perhaps so that we will go...
Oh I know. I just always know you will catch me saying something stupid. LOL. It's my way of testing to see if anyone is actually reading my posts. (yeah, that's it...that was a good one...yeah...testing all of you...yep. )
