Oh Brenda, no worries! I completely understand! Believe it or not, when I was a little girl I used to be a little "Jesus Freak". There was a Christian Book store next door to our nieghborhood. I lived there, spent all my allowance money there, and usually gave everything away. I was very adicted to the TRACS. Remember those cartoon comic book style trac books? I used to get them 10 for a $1. When I was 8, I used to buy a bunch and spread em all over the place! I was a riot! Anyway, I totally understand, being pationate. No worries. Write more!
Hey Becky! Thanks for yoru reply. I have learned a lot over the last month. None of which is easy to keep clear, but again, working on it. Also, learning that I have some adjustments to make to my expectations of other people. One thing that is becoming clear is that churches, in general, have changed, and with me not being there, I did not change with them. So I feel very out of sorts in new churches. Most of them seem to be about "Feeling Good" and "Personal Relationships" and so forth and it just was not like that years ago. I mean I remember geting "Into the SPirit" with songs and such, but we never sat and talked about "Personal" saviour, Jesus was just THE saviour. THE Lord and so forth. I am working on this, day by day. I cannot deal with watching my kids grow up with no Sunday School. No church is perfect, but I don't want to pop them in and out of churches. So, I am doing this without them, when Daddy is home early Sundays. Thanks for your help, by the way!
Did I mention my DH is a dip? I showed him the web site and he says, "Oh geesh! Those people are so difficult!" Sigh... He just happen to have dealt with the Pastor and the sound and lighting and performance people fromthis church just this past week, and he went on and on about how they made his life hell because of this and that. I told him, "Babe. Do you have to know EVERYONE? And, what's this got to do with God?" ARGH!
Can I suggest that the "feel good" feeling comes from a personal relationship with the Lord... ANYONE can experience it - not just a select few. The closer you walk with Him, the closer you feel to and become which is what gives you that "feel good" feeling (it's the Holy Spirit working through you). Jesus is THE ONLY way... "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6) God is the Father, He is the Son and He is the Holy Spirit (three persons in one, the Trinity). He is the One and only true God - anything less or any other variation (including allah) of that is worshipping false gods and sin. It hasn't been that long since I was walking the fence - having the head knowledge without having made a faith committment. It hasn't been that long since I was destined for hell. Am I glad I didn't die then... I *thought* I was going to go to heaven because I was a *good* person - I didn't steal, murder or anything major like that. I was a polite person who helped others when they needed to be helped. It's not my works that gets anyone into the gates of heaven (regardless of what those cute email stories tell about so and so meeting Peter at the Perley Gates). "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit" Titus 3:5 Jennifer, the best suggestion I could make at this point would be to go to a Bible teaching church and speak to a minister... ask him these same questions, explain where you are coming from and he can help you understand the changes that you see in today's churches vs years ago. As for your children, the sooner you expose them to Jesus' teachings, the sooner they will learn too and the sooner they can make the life and death decision for themselves (ouch! that sounded harsh - no way to sugar it down without making a point though). This of course is just my opinion but one that many others silently share. In the meantime, I am praying for you.
I grew up in a very conservative church. I didn't think anything of it...I assumed every church was the same. When I met my hubby, I learned that he grew up in a much more "free" style church. Oh my gosh! I struggled for the longest time trying to wrap my mind around this! I remember sitting through services with his family and thinking...this CAN'T be pleasing to God! I got to a place where I just didn't want to go anymore. I was convinced it was just wrong! Thankfully, over time, I began to miss something in my life...guess what it was?? I began praying that God would help me know what HIS truth was. I began reading my bible like crazy. All I knew was, no matter what, I wanted to do what God wanted. I didn't want to just "walk away" because I was confused or didn't feel like I could trust what I was seeing. I KNEW God was real, I KNEW I had to make the choice to trust Him. What I learned was that it is ok to have different styles of worship. People are all different and we can't expect that we would worship the same way. As long as we are following the teaching of God's Word, Praying for God's guidance, and trusting God's guidance...God will be honored. So...that's where I started...and I have just continued to walk that same road with God and I have grown and grown and grown in my faith! Anyway, all this to say, I know (as I am sure we have all experienced something like this) how it is to be uncertain. But if you are truly seeking the truth about God...He will show it to you...just trust Him. It is ok to have doubts and questions...just don't close yourself off to what is true. By the way...we go to a non-denominational church. It is much different than the way I grew up. But, I love it...I am sure it is where God wants us. I do still miss the "old" style of the church I grew up in from time to time and I have a much deeper aprreciation for it.
Oh, hon, no, no no.. I did not mean that.. I mean the "Feel Good stuff they have going on in the sermons.. For example.. At Lakewood, they just want you to Feel Good (He says it about 50 thousand times)... and don't stress over this or that, just feel good about what you do... The emphasise what you do in your life and turn out being just pep rally talks... no substance religious wise... does this makes sense? I understand Feeling Good and being in the spirit and such.. that is not what I am talking about... I mean, like when you work hard to make sure your child always FEELS GOOD, even at the expense of spoiling them. Like when a person wants their kids to always be happy.. it's not reality.. And when In one of these churches, it feels plastic, like they are just reving everyone up to feel a plastic "Good" about themselves, mind you, not about christ, so they will leave and buy something at the book store. Do you know what I mean by feel good? It means a plastic or artificially inflated sense of happiness with no substance. That is what I meant. For example: One broker says to an invester, "Yea, the reports on the upcomming quarter are possitive, but these are just "Feel Good" figures for the investors. There's no real prove anything will go up. Most investors will fall for it and buy"
I sooo totally understand you on this! haha I am just like that! I tis not an issue of saying, "Everyone is wrong". This is an issue of me saying, I know I am out of the loop, but I cannot deny my natural tendancies to say, this is over the top. It is like I went into a coma, came out and suddenly the Pope is wearing a thong. Seriously, it seems that dramatic on some issues...
I struggle as well with the styles of worship but to me it's a bit different. I see passages in the Bible that describe people reacting to God in a WIDE variety of ways. When they mourned they tore their clothes and put ashes on themselves, when they were excited they shouted and danced! There were also times of reverence and quiet. I get frustrated because it seems like most churches pick one and never deviate from it. Acting like people should always be excited and happy or always mournful or always quiet and reverent. I think this is what being "personal" with God is.. Reacting to your feelings in how you talk(pray and worship) Him and listening quietly in case God is trying to tell you something. Tell him your needs and desires be who you ARE at every moment, it's not like you can hide it from God anyways. The newer thing about talking about a personal relationship with God is because they feel they must combat the trend of people who think that going to a church building = a follower of Christ. You really need to read bibles and pray about where and what you are everyday and anyplace, not just at church if you want to be a real follower of Christ. Remember when the people were shouting "Hosanna!" on Palm Sunday.. Jesus said if they were quiet and reverent the ROCKS would cry out. They were suppose to be REAL about how they felt.. not be shushed. The is a time for each different style and if you refuse one style over another.. you are not being real about your feelings to God unless you ahve truly NEVER been really happy or really awed or really sad. Have you ever SHOUTED to God? or for others have you ever Mourned your wrongdoings? or have you ever danced before the Lord because you were so happy you just wanted to? Have you ever just sang a quiet reverent Hymn because you felt God was so big and so awesome you needed to be reverent over the impossibility for you to fully comprehend Him? I used to wonder at some of the churches who focused more on the dancing and shouting style and why on earth they would fall to the ground sometimes when they were prayed for. Now I've come to believe that while some are faking it for a show , most of them maybe God just can't get them to calm down and be quiet when it's needed in any other way. LOL I don't mean to sound rude here.... but Quiet reverent people never seem to have this happen and the ones that do always talk about how they felt God's peace during it or that God told them something. Were they not listening when being so excited? I have little to back up this theory other than talking to people about it. My Church is more on the excited all the time side. When I feel reverent and inspired to pray quietly, I have to leave the santuary and go to the baby cry room to pray quietly because it's too loud otherwise in there. On the other hand I visited some diffrent churches that had a more reverent style and there was no way to be excited about it all with sticking out like a sore thumb. I guess when it comes to worship style we are forced anymore to decide which way we feel more often in order to determine where we will not feel uncomfortable in worshiping God. **Stops preaching now**
Jen...you crack me up! I love the way you can compare issues in such a funny way! Of course, now I have a visual....
I would say any church that is not focused on the Word of God aka the Bible as the inerrant Word of God, All scripture is God breathed and all that, well, I would not go too long at. I would also make sure the one I went to was where God had me chosen to go, sometimes we are lead to a certain church by the Holy Spirit so that we can help that church too. Just a thought there, but if I were you where you are at in your search I would seek the Lord's direction and ask Him to personally open my eyes and ears to speak to me personally ( you know when you are hearing from Him, that gut feeling thing?) that I was at the right place and worshiping the one true God..
AMEN! This is the first thing anyone should look for...SCRIPTURE!:angel: This is how I feel about our church. I can't explain it, but somehow we were led to go there. As a girl I went there for about two years, family left, after looking for churches high and low with the hubby I remembered how this church made me very happy, so we went (15 years later-eek!). We fell in love with it. Now I'm working with our youth pastor and elders in getting a daycare running in there (specialty). God works in wonderful mysterious ways and now when I look back and ponder, everything make so much sense! I've been reading this thread for the last couple days now and have enjoyed reading everyone's posts:love: .
You could also visit the church before you even attend. That would allow you to talk to the pastor, see the layout and get a sense of how it is. My son was ADHD when we were looking for a church, so I arranged to go see it first. The pastor was nice enough to show us around, tell us some background, and help us know what to expect. I was 28 then, and I hadn't been to church before that since I was 9. That church was a Jehova's Witness Kingdom Hall, and since that is so different from what I know now, I'd say it was really much longer ago than when I was 9!
Well, I would like to add that I know (And I am sure it is obvious to the rest of you) that it is my burden and my place to find God, not the other way around. I mean, me and DH are a strange sort. WE look like any other couple with three kids. He has his low paying big wig job and I used to be a reporter, but stay home now. We look normal, but we checked out a long time ago. We have issues that we need to work out. In fact just last night, when I showed my husband a website for a particular church and he pops of with the smart remark about how the preacher is indecisive and difficult. I wanted to choke him. Look, we have basically shut ourselves off from the world, and it has changed without us. We may be out of date, but we cannot expect the world to be perfect BEFORE we choose to rejoin the world, or a church for that matter." He shrugged an agreement, but still thinks there are no honest churches left and that the rest of us are idiots for buying into the hype. Not that he does not believe in God, he thinks all the churches have gone bad. Does that make sense? (Well of course, not, but I meant to clarify that it's not religious people in general that he thinks have gone nuts, it the leadership) ok anyway... I further explained my point last night, that there are jerks where he works, there are jerks at the swimming pool and there are jerks at church. "Are we going to let them keep us away from God's House?" His eyes perked up at that coment and he said, "Hmmm Good analogy!" So, we are trying to come out of our shells, and we are learning to deal with a different world and learning to stop putting such high expectations on the world. Again, this is our fault and our place to fix this. And we are not expecting god to do all the work, for sure! But man o man, I sure miss the old days of Hush yor mouth and sweet potato pie! I bet five bucks that I end up working in a retirement home, just so I can listen to those old women chatter on... Ok, rambling here...sorry.. Ok, now back to your regularly scheduled thread......
I think it will be difficult to find a church until you come to terms with how you feel about the Word of God. Is the Bible the final authority? If not...what is? And if not...what is the measuring stick you are using to know where you belong? You won't find many Christian churches that will agree that the Koran is of the same divinity as the Holy Bible. I think you really need to soul search and figure out what you believe God is and what salvation is. How can it be defined without scripture? I may be way off....but it sounded to me before like you were not convinced that the Bible was the final authority. You will need to define what God is and what salvation is to know better where you will fit in. However, IMO, the only good church is one who preaches from the Word. As you said, you will find jerks everywhere. We are all flawed, so we cannot judge a potential church on some of the people. We pick a church based on it's doctrine and a few other factors. I pray that God will guide you and your family to where you are supposed to be. I can see you are searching. God will bless you for it.
Jennifer, It would be hard to dispute that some churches aren't what they used to be anymore and that every church has one or two people there who make it difficult for others to be there. My husband and I had this discussion several times because he too struggles with a similar issue and this is how I replied to him. (And this is just my opinion) A "church" (and by this I mean the physical structure), no matter how fancy it may look on the outside or all the luxuries it may have on the inside isn't the reason why you should be going there. It isn't supposed to be the people inside the building either - don't get me wrong it is vital to have Christian friends to support you, but they shouldn't be the reason why you are there. My husband struggles with some of the people who attend our church... one family in particular snubs their nose in the air at the sight of my husband (because his Spiritual struggles are no secret to others) as opposed to going to him and saying "Hey Trace, looks like you're struggling with something, how can I help you?" This particular family shuns him and walk away like they're too good for him. And so when he sees them, he gets worked up about how they're dressed or how they wouldn't give him the time of day. Some days it aggitates me to no end (because he usually wants to talk about it in the middle of service). After church I have said to him... why do you bother to go to church? Do you go there to worship God or do you go there to hang out with people? Do you go there to learn from God's Word or do you go there to listen to a music style that might now match yours or check out what others are wearing? Church isn't about any of those things... to me it's a physical structure where you gather with a group of other believers (and the unsaved as well - they are there) and learn important truths through the minister teaches about God's Word and how to apply it to your life for maximum relationship with our Creator. The church is kind of like a school house... You learn something that you apply to your life to allow growth. To find a church after being away for some time may not be something that's going to happen over night. Someone else suggested finding a non-denominational Bible teaching church and I have to agree with that. Pray about it and allow God to lead you where you, your husband and your children will learn and grow the most. When we were saved (not quite four years ago), finding a church wasn't as much an issue for us... the church in our immediate community was known for a growing youth ministry and that's what I felt we needed at the time. Prior to becoming a Christian, I had gone to church with mom (who is Apostolic Pentecost) and so the preaching style from one denomination to another was totally opposite of what I was used to (and I do often miss it). I grew up in a Catholic church and so to go to the ACOP church or even Baptist was a really extreme stretch from what was my norm. Being where I am growing Spiritually is what is important to me. To get caught up in the political or legalities of this denomination or that one, may serve to be more confusing than it has to be (and for some can be quite a turn off). I work with someone who is Weslyn and he knows I am Baptist and makes snide remarks often - in a joking manner about those Baptists from (insert town). It's not the denomination that makes me who I am. It all comes back to my relationship with God. When the Second Coming or death happens, it won't matter what church I chose to attend or what denomination I chose to attend, it's what's inside the heart... where I stand with my faith and my relationship with God. I'm sure this isn't new information to you... I just wanted to share it with you anyway. Oh my word... I've gone on and one here - sorry. I told you I get carried away
Jennifer, you can't let the people in a church be the reason you do or don't go there. Our church has had a bunch of snobs, holier-than-thous- and just plain backstabbers. One told me that by homeschooling Jeanne hopefully I wouldn't mess her up too bad. Jerks. I've even been tricked out of serving already because of the sneakiness of two members in particular. I'm not there for them, I'm there to worship. My attitude toward them isn't very Christ-like and I need to work on it. If I let them have their way I'd have left long ago. Ava said it in a nutshell- you have to decide what you believe and go from there.
What you told your Husband was good.. there are Jerks everywhere. Does that mean we don't go ANYWHERE? I just try hard to focus on God being the reason for going to Church...
Sadly, not all people who attend church are Godly. In EVERY church there are problems. Actually, whenever you deal with people you will have problems. I do think that if you allow the Lord to guide you to a church it will make your commitment easier to deal with. Even through times of trouble with other memebers you will have the knowledge that God WANTS you here so you belong. That can be encouraging. When our church was going through a split (which by the way was a blessing...like God pruning a rose bush, ya know.) a friend of mine looked up a few verses for those who were causing trouble. So, arm yourselves with these...however, you may need to find a gentle way to use them or just know them for yourself.... Prov. 6:16-19 These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischef, a false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. That is the "seven deadly sins", the seventh---sowing discord among the brethren is an abomination! That ranks with homosexuality. Psa 55:21 The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords. Pro 6:14 Frowardness is in his heart, he deviseth mischief continually; he soweth discord. The Word also teaches that what comes out of our mouths is what is in our hearts and defines us. So, a person who is acting like what has been described...says more about their relationship with the Word then the Word itself. I don't worry about those who sow discord or spread lies. Proud looks---like snubbing of the nose at your dh, Brenda, says more about their own heart. Don't let these kinds of people be stumbling blocks. God will deal with stumbling blocks. And the bible also teaches that it is better to be persecuted for good then bad. With all that said, Jennifer....all churches will contain jerks. You will not find a perfect church because we are not perfect people. However, you cannot let that keep you from the Word. Then it is you who has been decieved. Don't let "jerks" keep you from your walk. You and your family have to walk your own path. When you are before the judgement seat of Christ you cannot blame hypocrites and jerks for you not serving the Lord. You cannot isolate yourself. In this way, forgive my boldness, you are being prideful. WE ALL have fallen short. I know you are not vaunting yourself... I am just trying to let you this a different perspective. What if Jesus decided not to join in with this unperfect world? Join the world---you can't wait for it to become perfect. It will not be until the return of our Lord. Again, you will have to figure out what you believe. Ask yourself...what is salvation? What is God? Who is Jesus? Is Jesus the SON of God? Is He divine? If you don't believe he is anything more than a prophet, then you are NOT following the path of salvation paved in the Word. So, you need to think about that. Flat out....no holds barred...if you do not believe Jesus is divine and the Way, the only Way....you are NOT saved. Throw the tomatoes my way if you must. Tell me I am offensive if you must. But I say this because I want you to fully understand what salvation is from the Holy Bible, the Word. Jesus is the Word. He wasn't just concieved....He has ALWAYS existed. He came to earth in the form of a man....however he existed before then. He is not a mere prophet. He has the power to save. Mohammed DOES NOT. (forgive my spelling of that name) I urge you to soul search on this. I am coming down hard only for my concern for you.
I know I'm jumping in late here, but I'm reading a good book that might interest you right now. It's called "A Ready Defense" by Josh McDowell. It may help you work through some of your questions. Book Description Be prepared "in season and out" with this handy reference book of faith. Timely and biblically based, Josh McDowell's work offers defenses in 60 of the most-challenged areas of faith. All in one easy-to-reference volume, this book will strengthen your commitment and help you stand firm against challenges to the truth.
