I did n't have much time today, to chat, as thw twins got very into our planets unit today.. Anyway, I wanted to let you gals know that I read everything and I thank you for everything! Last night I was discussing this with my husband and I reminded him that we are basically being snobs for all the wrong reasons. And so on... jerks are everywhere... are we going to let them keep us from God's house and so on... He was in tears (No drops fell, just red watery eyes...) about this.... He did not grow up with really any form of religion, but he is lonely too! If any of you are praying for us, please pray that my husband uses his love of adventure and learning to trust the situation enough to allow himself to TRY church. He's a thinker (Me too, of course...) and we tend to over think things. But there is hope and I want to tell you that this small conversation last night was HUGE in our 15 year relationship. HUGE. I need to go, but THANK YOU! jen
I wasn't going to join in on this discussion, but I decided to anyway. I was raised in church, every time the doors were open. My mother was the pianist, my father was a deacon. We had regular talks and devotionals at home. My family lived by the Bible. At a young age, I "walked the aisle" only to be met with a handshake and a form to fill out. I was (and still am) an introspective sort and walking the aisle was my way of saying tell me what I need to do if what I am doing is not enough. No one really told me. No one prayed with me. My family and the church congratulated me and I consequently was baptised. Moving along...I taught Sunday School, VBS, children's choir, even some adult SS classes when I was young. Amazing how head knowledge can make you look like an expert. I married a man that felt called to be a minister. He went to Seminary. We had regular discussions about religious issues. I was a good "Christian." Then my husband began pastoring churches. I was a pastor's wife! I felt right at home. In my self-talk, I almost had the courage to allow thoughts of doubting my salvation creep in, but NO, I was saved when I was a girl - wasn't I? I depended on an act of walking an aisle and joining a church and my good works as a good church member to save me. I had all the head knowledge that even the demons share. James 2:19 - "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." I was 28 years old (22 years ago) before God finally broke down the barriers of my own knowledge and good works to realize that I had never allowed Jesus to enter my heart. I felt Him saying to me, "You must humble yourself before me." That meant that I would have to also humiliate myself in front of my pastor husband, family and all of the church. I have to tell you that thought of my "humiliation" was only a last ditch effort of Satan to keep me in my comfortable seat. If you have ever heard the song, "I have peace like a river," and you have that peace, you know what I am talking about. Since I surrendered my life, my knowledge, my stubborness, my pride to the Lord, I have a river of peace. I am not saying that I don't sin, that I don't feel guilty at times, but I don't ever feel "lost." (One more of those religious terms) There is a constant of peace and joy (not necessarily happiness) that keeps me content and confident of the fact that nothing can separate me from the love of God and his promise. Romans 8:38 - 39 says, "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Churches are full of people like me. That is why we cannot look to individuals to be examples. The church is also full of people that love the Lord. Which is why we need to find fellowship with other believers to strenghten our faith.
I couldn't agree more! Being around those who love the Lord brings you closer to him. Liz, I'm glad you joined the discussion. That was wonderfully said!
Homeschool G'ma, thank you for taking the time to share your testimony. We can all learn so much from it. Jen, I am glad to see you and your dh are talking and making progress toward a Christ centered life. I am glad the Lord opened your heart to this discussion. I will pray for you and your family. It seems you grew up in church....since you dh did not..it is normal to have reservations. Does he know he needs a savior? I think that once he comes to that conclusion trying church and living a Godly life will come naturally.
Wow, what a blessing you have given us all in asking your original questions! Who would have thought that by your getting up the coruage to post the questions on your mind, God has used you to brighten so many people's lives today and this past weekend as well! Thanks again for asking the questions on your mind and heart and for allowing us all to remind ourselves why we call our selves Christians. BTW- I always taught our kids church kids that a Christian is of Christ in the same way as a Candadian is of Canada. So that they know that you must be of Christ to be a Christian. I grew up non christian as a nothing/prodestant who had no idea who God was untill I was 18 or 19 yrs of age. So I appreciate hearing stories of people who grew up in chruch and didn't know the Lord untill a later age. What awesome testimonies to be kept from the worlds grasp while you tried to do it on your own! Okay I wont go on< I really just wanted to thank Jen for her questions, I am so blessed reading all the responses! In HIs love, TeacherMom
YEp, my mom always said, "The church is not a meeting place for saints, it is a hospital for sinners!" So if you look at people, you'll be disappointed every (well, almost every) time! Keep your eyes focused where they should be---on God!
Ok, again, don't smack me... But... What is a Devotional? I can deduce that is is a form of prayer, but it is all new. I do not rememeber ever hearing "Devotionals" Or "Daily Devotionals". Now, I know what "Born again Christian" means. But I also remember in the 70's when it became a big BUZZ WORD, where all the "Youngins" were using it. I remeber my Grandmother yacking at my mom about how, "I'm so tired of hearing that word Born again! Sounds like ya'll done tried to make yourself a new kind of god. Why can't you just be a christian and quit adding new names to it?" Grandmother did not like change! This was also the era of many "Cults" Like the Jonestown massacre that happned in 1978. And I guess I am the same way... It is not that there is anything WORNG with phrases or words. That would be stupid. I was just saying it is weird, different, and when it comes to religion, people like me get nervous when change happens. Oh and just to point out something funny... Blast from the Past was on last night... th story of the kid who is undedrgound for 30 years... that's what this feels like.
Devotionals are usually Bible based commentaries to be read in personal Bible study/prayer times. In our family, my parents read from a devotional book that was geared for children. It would have a Bible Story and then it would have questions for them to ask to see if we understood the application of the Scripture to our lives. I use such a book with my grandson at night when he stays with me.
a daily devotional is a time that you devote to spending time with God, Many of us have written books called devotionals because we are trying to encoruage those who have a hard time getting started in devotion times on thier own for whatever reason. Basically the one's I have written are to encourage ones growth in the Lord via encouraging that daily time, my book has them short for busy peoples, my weekly one starts out long, but suggests shorter daily readings... Hope I helped! Teachermom
I grew up going to church and doing all the ceremonial things you do at certain ages (first communion, first confession, etc) but I can honestly say I really had no clue what any of it meant. I grew up thinking that I was a Christian because I was "baptised" as a baby. I participated in the choir, etc. Then when my dh and I were married, I stopped going to church as often because I didn't have the time (more like didn't want to make the time to go). I figured what's the point, there was never a new message - it all seemed rehearsed... today's message is identical to the one last year on April 26 and next year on the same date... I really didn't understand it. Mom had tried to get involved in more things with in the Catholic church and felt something was missing and then she learned about the Alpha ministry. She attended the ministry with my aunt and then a second time at a Baptist church in town (she did it this time to get my dh and I to go). I honestly went with her to get her to shut up and stop nagging me. I enjoyed it and went back a second time. The second time, it had more meaning to mean... In that time, I injured my back at work. I knew immediately it was a sign from God to make changes in my life... my marriage was in big trouble and at that point, so was my health. I began reading my Bible, reading books that would explain this foreign "stuff" to me and I was going to church three times a week (not including the Alpha nights). I was doing it for the third time when I was sent away for rehab on my back and all the progress I had made towards my faith went down the drain because it was so much easier to follow the direction of the world. Within months my marriage was again destined for doom and I was back to my old self again. Fast forward to 2002... my husband was critically injured in a motor vehicle accident (with a moose). He spent 5 1/2 weeks in the hospital 3 1/2 of those in intensive care on life support. I travelled back and forth every day (except for three or four). He should not have walked away from it like he did (a young girl was killed a week earlier in the same area, same thing happened), he should be dead, he should be paralyzed, he should be so much worse off than what he is... I told this to Mom and she told me that God spared his life for a reason. I spent many days travelling reflecting on how things had been what was happening all around me and realizing that God was allowing him to live for a reason and I had some serious changes to make. On September 9, 2002 after I got home from the hospital, I called him to see how he was doing (when I left, he was having serious headaches). He was cryign on the phone (and I was worried about him). His uncle (who was a minister) had been there and Tracy asked him to help him come back to the Lord (he grew up in church in his teen years and had been baptised, etc). He was SO full of the Holy Spirit. Fast forward a couple more days... when he was transferred closer to home, mom and I were visiting him and Tracy insisted I needed to be "right" with the Lord and on Friday September 13 (at 3:30 pm), I too was saved. Tracy was again overwhelmed by the Spirit and he was tugging on his chest... I was about to call out to the nurses station - I thought he was having a heart attack when Mom explained what was happening. It was scary stuff to me. I thought he was going to be the more faithful one having an easier time because of his salvation experience but he has struggled. I was honestly scared to death having no idea what was to come... In July of 2003, I was baptised by immersion in the lake... when I told Dad, his response was "you were baptised as a baby". By his choice (and Mom's) yes I was but this was my choice and my act of obedience. What an AWESOME experience it was! I often tell people that the ONLY difference between me and someone who does not know the saving knowledge of Jesus is that I am a sinner saved by grace and the other person isn't. Being a Christian does not make us perfect, it doesn't mean we don't still do wrong - we all do... we stuill have to repent and continually ask for forgiveness. Jennifer... I AM praying for you and for your husband... God is allowing you to ask the questions and make the statements that you are making for us to help you but also for each of us to reflect on our own lives and maybe to make changes if they need to be made.
Brenda, thank you for sharing your testimony! What a blessing it is to read it. This is why we devote our lives to Christ. We have no need to get bogged down by those who want to be a stumbling block. Augustine said that we are never to judge a philosophy by its abuse. That is so true even when applied to Christianity. We cannot let those who have tainted it or who have become stumbling blocks to define who God is and what Christianity means. I was raised Catholic. I thought that because I believed there was a God that I was going to Heaven. I didn't think that I had done anything to deserve the alternative. So, I went on believing that. When I was in junior high I developed a friendship with a Baptist girl. We just simply started out as friends. We hung out, laughed, had sleepovers and all that. As time went on she began to witness to me. She said that she was a born again christian. When I told my mom she said, "oh, those born againers, they are just holy rollers." I figured the whole "born again" thing was just a buzz word and left it at that. In fact, I said to my friend, " I will never be born again!" We continued our friendship. We were very much alike and became best friends. Over time she continued to witness to me. I pretty much blew it off, since I believed in God, I figured she was wasting her time. I felt like she was preaching to the chior, so to speak. Time passed, and I turned 19. My friend and I moved in an apartment together while attending college. Her parents had bought me a bible. I thought that was very kind. I would read it almost every night. Then one night I came upon John 3:....no not John 3:16, John 3:3....Jesus answered and said, Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. That knocked my socks off! You mean Jesus, himself, used the buzz term "born again"??????!!!!!!!!!! I thought, well if Jesus says I have to be born again, then that is what I will do. So, I wanted to know exactly how to be born again. It was then that my friend explained to me the plan of salvation and I got saved. Now from saved to churched is a whole other story that would require quite a bit of typing. I realized that the term born again was more of a defining term. Anyone can say they are a Christian but that doesn't mean he or she is saved or born again. I hardly use the term myself....I normally use "saved." But, it was that "buzz word" that led me to the path of salvation. I thought I would share that, Jennifer, since you called "born again" a buzz word. It reminded me of how I felt. And of course it is just a term...but it is funny how it all worked out.
I am really enjoying this thread. It's funny, but one that is very similar is going on on another forum I am on, but it is mostly about the differences in church beliefs and practices. I am so pleased that we can all talk without judging and keep the tone nice. Most of us would expect threads like these to turn ugly, with someone taking offence or getting feelings hurt or something. It's nice to just hear what someone else has to say. I have enjoyed the other testamonies, too.
Slam Dunk! Dayng! I had no idea that term is in the bible! Ok, I am officially a moron. Well, about 10% less a moron, now. Seriously, thanks. I had no clue! I thought it was a 1970's - 1980-'s Buzz word. I was wrong.
John 3:7-11 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit." 9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him,"How can these things be?" 10 Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? NKJV Re the born again thing... Don't worry a great Scripture Scholar ( jewish rabbi even) did not know it! There are three scriptures with the words Born Again in them.. I think we all heard it more in the 70-80's time period. At that point I had no clue what it meant either.
Another question... (Thanking you in advance..) I remember watching the discovery Channel (Maybe Discovery Times Channel) about the history of the bible. And in one program they were discussing Noah. I did not record the program and I missed part of what the arator was saying. But it had something to do with when Noah and his family came out of the arc. After the rainbow and God's comment to "Be fruitfull" and Before Noah sacrificed the Goat... God told Noah that the animals were NOW his as MEAT. The discovery channel said that many scholars debate that this was in reference to the fact that people were vegitarians before Noah and only after Noah did God condone meat eating. And they said that of course, there are plenty of scholars who say od was simply saying, "Ok, your food is all still here. So, my question is: Is this true? Were people vegitarians until after the flood? (You guys are saints for putting up with me!)
Jen, THere is no refrence that I can find to meat prior to Exodus from Egypt when God actualy brought them some meat the same way he brought the manna from heaven. This time it was quial or some such bird which was there to kill and eat even... I think even the discovery channel has to be taken with a grain of salt. When I was seeking to find who God was and where we came from I watched all the "in Search of..." anything Biblical. I know now that they were nto accurate but at the time God used them to help me find the truth. Ex 16:8 8 Also Moses said, "This shall be seen when the LORD gives you meat to eat in the evening, and in the morning bread to the full; for the LORD hears your complaints which you make against Him. And what are we? Your complaints are not against us but against the LORD." NKJV Prior to Exodus...16 and verse 3 there is no mention according to PC Study bible refs at least. I used the concordance to search the word Meat. Hope I helped!
I thought Manna ment "what is it?" Seriously. I will have to try and find the definition somewhere. Jennifer, you are not a moron! Well, if you are, I am also. I had no clue it was a biblical term until I read it also. You would be surprised at how many terms and phrases we use that are directly from the bible. I have a list of several of them. Anyway, once you know better, you do better! That is all you can do.
