Ok, I got an invite to my dh's 2nd cousin's baby shower. I didn't even know she was pregnant. Ok, here are my thoughts and if I am a real jerk or just making excuses not to go (I hate showers, even if they are for me.) let me know. I almost hesitate to write this but I want feedback. So, here goes.... She is not married, nor does she plan on getting married. She is about 19 or 20. My kids still see her as a kid. The shower is being held at my mil's church. Being young she registered at three different places for the most ridiculous and expensive items. Anyway, here is my problem. She is NOT married. Yes, I know it happens. The shower is being held at a church. I am appalled by that. Ok, now I am not judging anyone who may have been pregnant before marriage. I have no problem going to the shower except that it is at a church. My church never would have allowed that. We threw a shower for a girl at my church who got pregnant before marriage, but it was at a someone's home. Is there a difference? I thought so, but I may be wrong. I also still plan on going. So, the problem is that I do not want to take my 8 year old daughter. I know, what problem is that, just don't take her. I question is, I am a jerk. I think I am trying to guard my daughter from this. My kids think you have to be married to have kids. I do know and understand and expect that they will be faced with reality. However, is now too young? I plan on going because, I don't want to appear to be self-righteous. Although I have been told to stand on that moral ground since the girl is a christian. However, I am not sure I agree. My main concern is my dd. I am not sure that she needs to be confronted with this. Yes, the baby will arrive and sooner or later she will know Leigha had a baby. However, there is a difference in having a baby and celebrating a baby. Yes, all babies are great, but...ugh...I am worried about the lasting impression in my kid's head. Ok, here is a bit of personal background on me. When I was a teen I asked my mom about premarital sex. I wanted to know why it was wrong. She didn't have an answer. She danced around the question and said if you plan to marry then maybe it isn't so bad. Well, I asked as a virgin. After that answer, 6 months later I wasn't. So, I am concerned about the impression this will make on my dd. I am being stupid? I hope you all take this post as it is meant. I am not judging the girl. I don't condone premarital sex. I also don't like that the shower is at a church. But maybe my own past is coloring the proper perspective on this. Anyway, I already typed your eyes off. So, I hope you get my question.
My daughter is 8, she wouldn't connect a baby shower with the girl being married or un married unless I made an issue of it. If she did ask the question then we would talk about it.
There's a verse somewhere that talks about when people chose to disobey God's law, there is much "confusion" and something else. We were confronted with this a few years back when my DSS became engaged to a gal who was expecting. Fortunately, they broke up (he was NOT the father). There was a verse we had learned just before that while reading about the Tower of Babel. Basically it said that when people disobeyed God's law, it led to much "confusion". So when a then 8YO Rachael asked me how she was pregnant and not married, I explained that God set rules up for us to follow. But we can always chose to NOT follow these rules. We talked about the "confusion" that was the result of this, and that this girl was not "terrible", but she WAS a sinner, just like all of us are. We also discussed that God knows what he's doing, and sets rules up for our own good. Disobeying them always leads to trouble! I also inadvertently let out that my cousin had her baby before the wedding, while talking in the front seat to my DH. This little girl is a few months older than Rachael, and the two enjoy each other very much. Rachael jumped in on that really quick! So I explained that yes, my cousin and her husband made some wrong choices, but then they decided to make a good choice by getting married. And we all know what a wonderful dad and husband he is, and when someone recognizes their mistakes and asks God forgiveness, then we don't dwell on it or discuss it anymore. I also told her that it would NOT!!! be a good idea to mention it to her little cousin; it might hurt her feelings. Again, I wanted to try and emphasize being non-judgmental while at the same time not giving the impression that this was "ok". At the same time, what do you do when the person isn't at all repentant? I've another cousin who is a single mom, has nothing to do with the baby's father, and is talking about having another one, so her son doesn't grow up an only child!!! Can you imagine??? Everyone makes mistakes, but society no longer considers this a "mistake". Instead it's "perfectly normal". How do we say "ENOUGH!" without being judgemental and "unloving"?
My kids asked me why a woman at church had kids but wasn't married. The woman was divorced, so it was easier to explain. So I do think a connection could be made. However, maybe I am just being overprotective and silly. Thanks for the input.
Jackie! I love your post. I totally understand and agree with you. I don't want this situation to be considered "normal" by my daughter. I hate that everyone thinks that these things happen and it is ok. I also love your explanation. That was an excellent way to explain without being graphic or condemning the person just the action. I know my sins are just as bad as my husband's cousins. But how your relate it to confusing things is just great. Thank you so much for your input.
So funny you posted this topic! I have a 15 yo cousin (just turned 15) who is due with a baby in mid-May. We had to explain it to my 4yo and 5yo dd's. We just sat them down and told them that Taylor was going to have a baby. My 5yo wanted to know HOW!? We explained the whole sin issue etc... but I really think that she wanted to know how because she wants to make sure she doesn't make the same mistake/commit the same sin. We just told her that she is too little for this to happen to and that Taylor had an adult relationship as a teenager and that this type of relationship is intended by God for married adults. She seemed pretty satisfied but still wanted to know HOW it happened. We just had to stop her at that and ask her to just trust us with the rest of the info. It's a hard thing to deal with. I want so bad to protect my girls too! But, when it's your own family, there's almost no way around it. The whole church thing is a tough issue. I can relate! Taylor and her parents are Christians and we all go to the same church. Lots of family issues in their home that I can't go in to, but still they are Christians. Our church hasn't really done much about it, not that it's any of my business really. But, my aunt (soon to be gma) and Taylor both serve in children's ministry, etc... I have a REALLY hard time with it! I'm not sure what the church's role is in all of this! Makes you wonder what goes wrong in the home when a 15 yo ends up pregnant, don'tcha think? I am fully aware that this could be me in 10 years with my 5yo but want to be sure that it's not because I have obviously failed in some way. I know I'll make mistakes but if this kind of thing ever happens, I sure hope it's not because of my failure as a parent. Does that make any sense? Don't know if I've contributed anything here but...
Thanks Angie. I just wanted to know I wasn't being super extreme. I also like everyone else, want to perserve my kids' innocence as long as possible. I don't want to be unrealistic. I just want to be sure that as I raise my kids for God, as He gave them to me, that I am not putting the wrong things in their head. I know I make mistakes. I just want to guide properly. I instinct says to not let my dd go. She needs to know this is wrong. I am afraid if she is faced with too much of this, she will think it is normal. You see my sil is going through a divorce but at the same time is living with another man and had a baby by him. My kids see this baby as their cousins' brother. In fact, they didn't even make the connection that the baby is not my sil's husband's. So, my dh and I just never said anything. If they were to ask, we would tell them the truth. And a divorced friend of mine is due to have a baby by a live in boyfriend. She was a former college roommate and is a christian. However, I don't think my kids realize this live in is not her husband. She lives out of town and I don't interact with her much. But yet, they do know she is pregnant. I mentioned the crazy names she liked to my dh and my kids were there. So ya see, too much of this goes on. I know, I know, I have to face facts and tell them something soon. But It just makes me see how sin affects people around you and not just you. When someone says, "it isn't hurting anyone but me." They are wrong.
We had two girls who had babies out of wed lock, they gave each a shower at the church. They were not ashamed of it either. What is scary is that one became pregnant while at a youth camp sponsored by the church. The topic of the youth camp was True Love Waits. The other was living with her boyfriend at her parents home. Oh the parents were there also. Now her younger brother is doing the same, the girl and her now husband and their 2 kids are also still living at home. I still feel strange sleeping in the same bed with my hubby of 15 years (almost 16) in my parents home. When my dd was 10 we went to one of the baby showers. It was hard for her to understand that the right thing to do is to get married first then have a family. When she was seeing them act the way they were, it did make it harder to explain. Your job as a parent is to keep teaching them what the right ways are. When they are older it will be up to them to take your teachings and apply them. When my dd was 8 she asked about the facts of life. I sat her down and answered any question she had, I didnt make up or leave out anything. As she has grown older she has had many more questions I have always answered her questions honestly. This way she will hear the truth from me not lies from others. Even the slang words that she hears from others, I tell her what they mean. She knows that she can always come to me and ask anything. I am not saying that it can't or want ever happen to my dd. But if it does she knows that we are here for her.
It's a scary world we live in and it's only going to get worse I'm afraid! Come, Lord Jesus, come! I think we are right to protect our children for as long as we can. That's different than sheltering them! As far as the unwed mothers things, I think we just give them the bare facts and leave it at that. I just keep stressing to my girls that this is why it's so important to do things the way God has instructed. I also remind them that the right way is most often the harder choice to make. And, as they see Taylor struggle over the years, as I'm sure she will, I'll have to point out the consequences of her sin and choices. Does that mean I won't be there for her to mentor her and help her. No! But, I think we as a church in today's culture are WAY TOO afraid to call sin what it is, just that SIN! We are too afraid of stepping on someone's toes, hurting someone's feelings, offending... I understand that we need to be loving, merciful, etc... but there has to be a balance! Not that I even know what that looks like necessarily but... I guess it's dependent on each situation and circumstance. Okay, off of my soapbox! Can you tell this is a HOT topic for me? I guess that's why I have all girls! God knows what He's doind!
Angie, thanks! I like your soapbox and I share it. We are too afraid of offending and calling sin what it is. I am tired of worrying about "stepping on toes" like you said. Let's see there is a verse..."For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation" Geesh, I forgot the address of that one. Hopefully, I quoted it correctly.
A young girl at our church just had a baby, and she also wasn't married. Her parents are decent Christians, too, so I don't think it's always a point in asking about the homelife when this happens. Although nothing's been announced I'd go to a shower for her if asked. It's not the baby's fault of how it got here. It's between her and God, and if she has made pennance, then that's what counts. Nothing has been made of it in our church that I know of.
I would have a very hard time with an unwed mother teaching Sunday School. We had a person at our church (guy) who broke up the home of someone he worked with. He left the church, he married the lady, but about a year later he returned with her. She began to teach Sunday School. That REALLY bothered me, but it was at the time we left. And I couldn't really say anything, because I found out in a round-about way and wasn't suppose to know their situation in the first place. While I don't believe in shunning a person who has made a mistake, I also feel that they have to admit they made a mistake, repent, and strive to not do it again. If that happens, then their mistake can actually be used to teach these young people of what NOT to do. But when they are continuing in their immoral behavior and don't see anything "wrong" with it, it shouldn't be tolerated in the church. I also feel that the majority of unwed mothers should give their babies up for adoption. Now, I know some of you may have had and kept a baby, and I really don't mean to step on toes! I have some dear friends who have chosen to keep their child and later, by God's grace, have married wonderful guys that love these children as if it were their own. God is gracious to ALL. But we tend to encourage young girls, children really, to keep babies they have no business having in the first place. OK, I"ll try to stay off my soapbox now.....
That's a broad generality, Becky. But yes, I would say even those that would make great mothers. Let the child have the opportunity to be raised by two loving parents, rather than one. These great mothers can chose to marry and have more children lateer. Again, that's MY OPINION only. It is NOT me speaking gospel or anything.
Wow, this is a tough one. On one hand, who are we to judge? A sin is a sin and no matter what, we will all have to answer for them. On the other hand, I know you want to protect your children. However, by keeping children in the dark, it really only makes a situation worse off. By going to the shower you will be teaching your children that we should be forgiving people and love them no matter what sins they commit. It doesn't mean we have to agree with them, it means we still need to act like kind Christians. By no means do you have to support her decision to have premarital sex, but I don't see how it will affect your children if you are doing your part in educating them on the topic. I don't think the decision to go or not should be based on her decision to have this child or have premarital sex, but whether or not you are close to this part of the family or this person. PS: I can understand it seems odd to be in a church, but as a church, shouldn't they be out there with open arms to everyone, regardless? By pushing someone away just because of a decision that was made, it wouldn't seem very church-like if you ask me. Everyone has their sins and everyone has "skeletons" in their closet...it's just that this girls's skeletons are out there for everyone to know.
Unwed mothers can make good mothers. The quality of the mom is not dependent upon whether she is married or not. That is not the issue. There are single parents due to a death of a spouse. There are single parents because of rape. However, the issue is if we should celebrate the idea of being an unwed mom. Fornication is a sin. That is gospel. Sadly, some will be more shamed than others because her child will be the evidence of her sin. Not all brides who wear white should. But those who use better birth control get to hide the fact. Even so, it doesn't change the cold hard truth that fornication is sin. As a Christian I cannot condone sin. Yes, I am a sinner. However, the bible does tell us that in Romans 6:6-13 and Colossians 3:1-10 that we are dead to sin. We sin because we ALLOW our old nature to draw us back in. We are not victims of sin. We are not supposed to make provisions for the flesh, Romans 13:14. Since fornication falls under sin because it is breaking God's law, done apart from faith and it is unrighteous (1John 3:4, 1John 5:17, Romans 14:21-23), we cannot as Christians accept it. We can love the person. I am not saying to not have compassion. I am saying that we shouldn't be afraid to say something is sin and it cannot be allowed. If it is allowed then it will become a normal part of society and soon be accepted. This applies to ALL sin, not just fornication. So, if an unwed mom is a good mom, so what? That is not the issue. I hope she is a good mom. However, the bible has laid it out very clearly how our families are supposed to work. I know that if we follow God's law things will work they way He intended. We all stumble but we have to get back up on our feet again and stand tall for the Lord. We as Christians represent Him. If you get bad service at a store, you blame the store not jsut the girl with the name tag. We, who are God's, are wearing a little name tag that says "I represent the Lord." So, if we screw up, He looks bad. That is the main issue. And if we don't make that clear, then those who sin will think the sin is ok and continue. We don't want to develop hardened hearts to sin. The bible tells us that we are to agree with God that our sin is sin. (1Corinthians 11:31-32) So, we need to allow Christ's love to come through us, yet not accept those things that go against His law. So, that is why I am intolerate to sin. That includes and is especially true for MY OWN SIN. I still love this girl. I will be willing to guide her spiritually if she needed. I would love to see her son become a man of God. But we should hate sin because God hates sin. We should love God's law because we love God.
JenPooh---you posted the exact time I did. So that's why I am posting again. Anyway, I agree that we need to show our children that we love regardless of a sin commited. Afterall, where would I be if Christ didn't do the same for me? I also love your point that if I am teaching my child about premarital sex than this shower is immaterial. Good point. Thank you for that perspective. It was very helpful.
Ava, that is so interesting how you used the term "old nature". My pastor is always using that term in his sermons. Could this situation perhaps be the tip of the iceburg, persay? I mean, a situation that just reached the end of your rope? You mentioned something about her not ever planning to marry, registering for expensive gifts, etc. Hopefully when she gets a little older she will mature and realize the mistakes she has made like we all do.
I think we've all probably heard the saying, "Hate the sin, love the sinner." That's all what it boils down to really. The issue for me is, just what does that look like? How do we hate the sin, without judging as is reserved for Him? And, how do we love the sinner without condoning or being too pc? :?: I don't have my Bible right next to me but there is a verse somewhere that says that no one who is saved will continue to sin, meaning habitually so without remorse or conscience. KWIM? Of course, we all continue to sin, none of us is perfect. And, sin is sin, whether a liar or a fornicator. I think the issue is, has there been true repentance on the part of these unwed mothers? If so, let's move on and love them as Christ would. If not, let's also love them as He would and confront them in their sin. Remember the adulterous woman? "Go and sin no more!" Let's not let them continue in their habitual behavior without shedding light on it. Then, the rest is up to them. The same should be true for all sin. I'm grateful when someone (usually my mom) confronts me with my own sin, especially if I genuinely haven't realized it's magnitude before. Am I being too harsh? I guess I just think of my own family. In my earlier post I mentioned that we should wonder what's wrong in the homes of these girls. That is a generality of course. But truly, if we are raising our girls to value modesty, purity, etc... and their dads are valuing them and loving them properly, then would they be turning to these boys/men? I don't have the answer. I guess my point is just that I wish more parents would take responsibility for the actions of their kids. Once again, a generality, but I think this applies in a lot of cases. In my family for instance, I warned my 15yo cousin's mom that this may happen over three years ago. It was so obvious! Sometimes I just want to take parents by the shoulders, shake them, and say "WAKE UP!" I pray this can never be said about me! I'd rather ere on the side of caution then just let me girls "find their own way" so to speak. Okay, I'm climbing back off of my soapbox. Can you tell I was a high school girls youth leader until recently? It's just become to epidemic and unfortunately commonplace, even in our churches. It just makes my heart break!
