I don't think any of us has said anything about punishing these babies! :? Babies in these situations will have it hard enough as it is. I agree with Jen, hopefully God's plan is to grow these kids into powerful, godly leaders in their generation. My prayer is that these unwed mothers will learn from their mistakes and if saved, walk the narrow path. If not, ultimately come to salvation, however that's achieved. Let's just be honest here and admit that this is epidemic and I think it's time we stand up as Titus 2 women and confront it! Not saying we condemn, just confront in a loving, biblical, Jesus-like fashion. We can't let Satan fool our young girls anymore, and some of their parents for that matter. I could go on and on (obviously)!
Reading Jen's post, especially about her cousin, the word that comes to my mind is God's grace is sufficient in ANY situation! When we really botch things up through our sin, it is GRACE that will help us overcome, GRACE that gives us forgiveness, GRACE that gives us the ability to forgive...not only others, but ourselves!
Amy, I am so glad that if you honestly thought what your post says, that you posted it. I don't think anyone is talking about punishing a baby. We are simply trying to find the balance between condoning sin and loving the sinner. I care deeply for the girl I wrote this post about. I am not trying to be unloving. I am so sorry if it appeared that way. I was simply trying to find a balance. Would my going say that I condone that sin? That was my question. I also have stated in more than one of my posts that I was not a bride who could wear white. So, me and this girl have commited the exact same sin. I am not afraid to say that. It could just as easily be me. If it were me I would not have expected a shower. However, after thinking more about this and reading posts by you ladies I have realized.....that if I did have a shower and people came it would mean the world to me. So, in that spirit I am happy to go. Paul said that he was the cheifest of sinners. However, he called a duck a duck. Just because I smoked in the past doesn't mean I can't warn of the dangers of it in the present. We can't pay for our past sins forever...actually never...Christ did that. We are here to represent Christ regardless of our baggage. I have baggages of sin. I was pretty insecure, since I sinned in this same area, of how to teach my daughter purity. That is baggage! I teach her what Christ says. But because I carry that baggage and I don't want my daughters to carry that same baggage---I didn't know how to handle this. Well, you ladies reminded me to drop the baggage and handle it like God would have you handle it. It was my insecurity that made me not want to go. I was insecure about having my daughter face this. I feel like a hypocrite teaching her purity when I myself am not pure. Then again, I have the obligation to teach God's word. We are always a bit more intolerate of sins that hit close to home. That was coloring my point of view and I am thankful that Jen, saw that. She doesn't even know me but she knew that there was something else causing me to have trouble with this. I am grateful for all the ladies that reminded me that we can be intolerate to sin but must always be loving. I also said in another post that if Christ wasn't forgiving and loving, then where would I be? We were all born into sin. We all may have different sins, but we all sin. Please, Amy don't take me for some self righteous jerk. I think that we should be able to call sin what it is. I am not afraid to say I sinned in the same area. You can call me a sinner all you want. I know I am. But I stand forgiven. And that is what gives me the right and obligation to discern what is sin and what isn't. Yet, love is the greatest commandment. Balance is what we want to achieve. Intolerance toward sin tempered with love. That was all I was going for was...where is the balance. Just because I commited the same sin doesn't me that I have to pretend it isn't sin. Doesn't mean I shy away. "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power unto God to salvation." We love God so we hate sin. But we love God so we love his children even when they are unlovable or sin. I hate my own sin the most. So, you can call me selfish. Because I am more concerned with my own than anyone elses.
Angie, Deuteronomy 6:5-9 is one of my most favorite favorite verses in the Bible. I love verse 7--about teaching your children diligently. God never said to teach them diligently if you are sinless or if it is on a sin you never commited. I also like that it is preceded by loving the Lord with all thine heart. If these are put together, that implies that part of loving the Lord is teaching your children about the Lord. Verse 9 tells us to post it on your gates. This tells us not to be ashamed of God's word. It doesn't say, post it on your gates if you are worthy. Awww...so much treasure in God's words. Those verses alone, right in front of our eyes, tells us so much. I love to garden, so I do it with all my heart even though I have made many many mistakes. I also have taught my kids how to garden---despite my mistakes--I still teach them. It even gives me power and understanding to teach them from my mistakes. So, of course we love the Lord more--same should apply. Ok, I'm done. Just get far too excited when reading the Word. In fact, I am reading Deuteronomy now.
Love your post Ava! You know what this passage always reminds me of? In order to teach these things to our kids, WE need to know them! That's my biggest conviction, I need to be hiding His Word in my heart so that I am able to fulfill the command of Deut! I better get busy on it! Have a great day! So nice to be able to "visit" with like-minded people, don'tcha think?
Ava, I think that's IMPOSSIBLE! There's no such thing as "too excited" when it comes to God's Word :love: !
I had Kevin out of wedlock. In fact, it was from an adulterous relationship. That kind of thing is what I saw growing up, so I did the same. I don't think Kevin suffered for having just one parent, but I do believe he suffered having a young, stupid mother. Having a husband wouldn't have changed that, either. A husband/father isn't the magic cure it gets made out to be. I also wouldn't have given Kevin up for adoption. Kevin was the turning point for me. I wanted to be better, have higher standards. There had to be more to life than what I was getting. Looking back, I was on the way to getting saved. Had I given him up, I'd probably still be a trollop. Someone earlier said we just have to raise our kids right and hope they live what they learned. I wish I had been taught differently about lots of things, but that's all water under the bridge. I know for a fact my kids have been taught better than I was, so I hope they never part from it.
Well said Becky. I can't imagine my families lives without my little cousin, and I bet you can't imagine your life without Kevin either! That's the kind of thing I had in mind when I said "breaking the cycle". My cousin is a wonderful mom and has raised a bright little girl. She did marry the dad when she turned of age but it didn't last. It was more or less a "well, we have a child so lets get married", and that isn't necessarily right either. There was no love. She was just young and made a bad judgement call. I also think though that by having her daughter and not giving her up, it has made her appreciate things more in life and has made her grow up faster than most. I think adoption can be a wonderful thing, but personally, nobody ever knows what happens behind closed doors and I would be too afraid of a child or grandchild of mine going to a home the "says" they are Christian and turn out to be some house full of crazies. If I had a daughter and she got pregnant, I would not want her giving the child up and if she wanted to, I'd raise the child myself. I don't trust people and in today's society, you really can't be too trusting.
Becky, I remember responding to this post, and it's not here! I wonder if I hit the preview button instead.... Anyway, what I WANTED to say is that my cousin said the same thing. She says that she was headed toward big trouble fast when she became pregnant with Ashley. And that made her stop and settle down. She did marry the father, and he's really a super guy and great husband/dad. No, it's not perfect, but then I don't know a marriage that is. Mine, as wonderful as it is, sure isn't perfect! We need to look at who a person is NOW, and the person they are growing into, not the person they were then.
My sister's x was mean to the older two kids. My neice ended up pregnant when she was 15. She had and kept the baby, and ended up marrying the father. She was pragnant through the school year, and had the baby in Feb. When the grades came out, she got upset because she got a 3.89 instead of a 4.0! We told her that actually that was very admirable considering all she'd been through in the last few months, and finishing the school year with a baby! After they were married they decided to have another child, and they did. The husband joined the Air Force, they were sent to Germany, and that's where they are now. She does Day Care (she's very creative and does a great job), raises her own kids, she and her husband are still very much in love, and life is good for them! So it CAN work. It DID teach her a lot, and she matured very quickly. Just before she found out she was pregnant she had been accepted into a sort of elite dance group that was very hard to get into! She was so excited, and they had done lots of practice and a couple of programs already. She had to make a choice between continuing to be a child (and getting an abortion), continuing by adopting it out, or changing her whole life and keeping the baby. They chose to keep that baby, and I'm so glad! They're a great family! I wish that never would have happened, but I'm proud of her for taking responsibility and having the maturity to make a choice that was very hard, and keep the baby and do the right things!
As I have been reading through this post I am watching a TV program on polygamy. There are so many issuess these days that our children are exposed to. I have had to explain teen pregnancy and unwed parent issues to my kids. My heart broke a little as I told them that you don't have to be married to have a baby.( However, I had a harder time explaining how a classmate has two moms. before HS) I am just now finding my way in the world of religion after a lifetime of unhappy church experiences and teachings within my family. I have toiled with never going to church because I am afraid of being judged. I smoke, don't know the bible, still feel "weird" when I talk about God to others. Last night I prayed to God to help me find my way so I could raise my children to love the Lord. I clicked on this post and immediately thought. "Here we go! This one's gonna get hot!" But I was wrong. You have all spoken so beautifully of your beliefs and honored and respected the opinions of others, even if they differed from yours. I hope you dont mind if I print this thread to remind myself of the power of prayer! Thank you all for helping me see the way.
You are more than welcome to print out the thread Maureen. I hope you don't give up on your quest for a church that you feel comfortable in. You are not alone and you shouldn't be judged or feel judged. You are also definitly not alone in the "I don't know the Bible" category. I don't know the Bible like I should either, but that doesn't make us any less of a believer!
Maureen, I'm glad you felt comforatble posting with us. As Jen said, you should search for a church you feel comfortable in. Jesus said "let you who is without sin, cast the first stone". Everyone is a sinner and no sin is better or worse than another. I don't know the Bible like I should either. ALL Christians are growing. We all constantly learn from time with God (prayer, Bible study). A church whose desire is to glorify God will not be full of judgment, but have arms wide open for every person who walks through the door. Prayer is powerful... I'm praying that God give you strength to find a church home, grow with Him, and raise your children to know and love him.
The problem with churches is that, since none of us are perfect, there is no perfect church. But we are all striving to become more Christ-like. Pray that God will guide you to a loving body that is willing to accept you, and where you can grow in His grace.
Isn't God SO amazing!? Maureen, I am so glad you posted and found comfort in our bantor. Know that we are praying for you!
Maureen, I am glad our posts could offer you comfort. This is a huge lesson in how we are to act as Christians. Never know who is listening. Never know when God will give us the opportunity to be a blessing and to get a blessing like you, Maureen, for posting. I haven't been on this messsage board for long but I can tell you...these ladies are the real deal. They love the Lord! On another message board this post would have got "hot". Maureen, never feel you are not good enough to go to church. I always find comfort in the story about Rahab. Whenever I feel like I am no good and I cannot contribute, I look to her. She was a harlot. Even so, she was saved from destruction. When the spies came to her it is a picture of the Lord coming to us. The Lord came to a house of a harlot! Rahab didn't have to get all cleaned up before the Lord would come. She didn't have to quit being a harlot before she could profess her faith in God. Surrounded by sin and destruction, she was saved. Saved by faith! That scarlet rope was a symbol of Christ's precious blood. If you look into bloodlines...she is in the same bloodline as Christ. A harlot! God is so awesome. She is even mentioned in Hebrews 11...the hall of fame for those who had faith. There is someone on this board who has the sig that says, God doesn't call the qualified. He qualifies the called. I think it may be Jackie. I love that! I have even written that down. Anyway, Maureen, I hope you allow the Lord to lead you. He will. He loves you. I always teach my sunday school kids that the Lord would have died on that cross for only one of them. He loves us that much. God loves us so much that he gave his only begotten Son. That is no small thing....don't let the devil trick you into thinking you are not good enough to serve the Lord. Let the Lord do His work and guide you. I want to thank you ladies once again. You are an answer to prayer. I had said that I was through with message boards and all that a few years back. The only way I would do it again is if I could somehow honor the Lord with it. I thought that was impossible. I mean here I am at a computer. Not in person. I tried this board because I wanted to advice on curriculum for next year. Now I feel ashamed that I thought the Lord couldn't be used online. Of course His glory can be seen on every forum or on any media. This message board is such a blessing.
Maureen, if you don't mind me asking...what types of churches have you tried so far? I have always gone to a non-denominational community church, but about 1 1/2 years ago my husband and I started going to a Bible church. I like the nondenominational route, only because that is where I find comfort and I wasn't brought up in a denomination, persay. However, our once small community church grew a lot over the years and it became overwhelmingly large, so when my hubby and I started looking we looked at everything we didn't like and started narrowing down the important things that we wanted in a church. A church with a Sunday School and nursery was important to us and good Sunday School care was a must, we wanted everything Bible based...no extra non-biblical doctrine, etc. I suggest to make a list of 3-5 things that are very important to you in a church and take it from there. Go to each church you wish to visit at least twice and try every kind of church you are comfortable with. And of course, pray about it. Also, don't be afriad to talk to the pastor/minister after the service to ask them questions about the church's views on certain things ( a good church will always have a pastor/minister available to answer questions after the service, in my opinion). We certainly did when we visited our church. It took us visiting about 5-6 different churches before we finally got to the one we are members of now, and we love it!
I am looking for a church that has a good youth program for my children. Something "modern". I use that word to encompass modern christian music (I just love the modern popish christian music.) and an easy to follow sermon. (Modern speaking...I can't follow or understand the thys and thous.) I think that I am looking for fellowship. A group of people I can fit in with and feel comfortable with. I'd also like a church that is active in community charity although not community politics. Tonight I will be visiting a community church. TONS of homeschooling families!! I have the courage to do this after reading your posts. Thank you again!!!
Oh Maureen, I wish you lived in WI, I'd invite you to my church. What you mentioned, my church has all that which is many reasons why I love it so much. Our pastor is the best...he can make the hardest to understand things just pop out at you and make sense and he also uses humor and analogies to hold your attention. He's just a very gifted man in the preaching area. The people are also wonderful and non-judgmental and oh so welcoming. The first time we were at the services we got welcomed by what seemed to be dozens of people (smaller church, of course they knew we were new). When we walked in, we just knew this church was it. I hope that you will find a church that has everything you are looking for. I know you will, it just may take time. It took us many years...ugh! Don't give up!
