Oh Maureen, I feel the same way you do. We went to a church up north when we lived up there and never in my life did I feel so out of place. They never made us feel welcome or anything. I have tryed to find a church down south here but don't seem to fit in either. It seems most the people have been here for years and don't like new people coming in there area. My dd's have tryed the youth programs and felt the same way. We are praying we can find a church that makes us feel like home. I know and I trust in the lord that someday that day will come. Maureen, I hope you all find something soon too.
Ok you two...move to Wisconsin and I'll take you to my church!!! You'd both love it! I've never felt so welcomed at a church in my life until I found this one!
Okay ladies, don't shoot me! I can't think of a way to say this to convey what I mean. So here goes: I LOVE my church and feel VERY at home there. However, I think it's important for all of us, when we are looking for a church, to look around and see how WE can serve in the body, not just how well they serve us. KWIM? Now, with that said, style of worship, great teaching, great children's youth ministry, ... ALL of those things are SO important. Please don't get me wrong. I'm not detracting from what all of you have said, but just wishing to ADD to it! I just think so often we (me included, SO preaching to the choir here!) look at whether or not the church is meeting our needs (which is very important) when we should be looking around for opportunities to meet the needs of others. Remember church is not primarily for us to get filled but for us to focus on and worship HIM! A good form of worship is to pour ourselves out for others. So, let's all keep that in mind when searching for a church home. Remember, I may be doing that in the near future if we decide to move! I sincerely hope I've conveyed myself the way I intended!
Finding a church can be quite a journey. I hope the Lord leads you to a church home soon, Maureen. I am glad to see you are trying one out.
It came through clearly to me, Angie, and I agree. Church isn't about us only, it's about worshipping God and giving Him the time and praise He deserves! But when people are cold to you, it would be hard to continue. Though maybe God wants you to wake those people up, cuz obviously they're not acting like Jesus would. maybe He wants you to go in and love those people into an understanding of how they're acting and how they SHOULD act???? I'll pray for you Kris, and others! And Maureen, I will pray for you too! I agree with what the other ladies have said about how much God loves you! He is soooo good, and does not hold ANYthing against us. In fact when we go to Him and say , "But look at all these sinful things I've done" and feel badly about ourselves, God says, "What sin? I've already cast that in the depths of the sea!" We're often harder on ourselves than God is! God's right next to you and is more than willing to help you through all this, so move forward knowing you have the Creator of the Universe walking right beside you! (How awesome is that?!!!)
This is what I had in mind as well. I agree Angie with your points too. However, who wants to serve in a church where they feel unwelcomed or a church that doesn't preach the gospel how you like, ya know? You HAVE to feel comfortable with your church's goals, philosophies, etc. I don't think it could be any other way. I would not attend a church and become a member of a church whose philosphy was far from what I agree with. I think it's important to look for those important factors in a church, and when you do, look at how you can serve in the body once you find one you like. I totally think it's important for EVERYONE to serve in their church somewhere and somehow...that's what keeps the church growing and stable. Without us serving, the church wouldn't be there and if someone doesn't, it's kind of like you are asking for a lot without having to give anything in return, which is wrong, IMHO.
In our church, which I love, there are a core group that you KNOW are going to be at everything and help with everything. On the other end of the spectrum, there are those who come in for church and eat at potlucks, but never help with anything. It's a little frustrating sometimes when some give so much and others come to be fed spiritually and physically, but give absolutely nothing in return. We always say, "Well, at least they're coming," and pray that God will work in their lives, maybe to help them see a talent or something that they could use to give back to God and the church, so it's not the same group of people doing everything!
In our church we have Discipleship. This is a one on one 16 lesson study designed to help a new christian begin to grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord. The lessons are to help one understand how to communicate with God and apply basic priniciple to the new christian's life. This is designed to build a solid foundation in Christ. After the 16 lessons, the disciple becomes the discipler and startes with someone else as the disciple. Anyway, I said all that to say, that Lesson 8 is on the Local Church. Here is briefly what it says if anyone is interested. A local church is a body of men and women who have been SAVED and called by God to serve in a specific area. (once saved we are all called to serve) Paul uses the example of the human body to relate to the church body in 1 Corinthians 12: 14-27. I am sure you all know the proper applications. Anyway, there is a list of the function of the local church: ACTS 2:41-47 1. The teaching of the Word of God, verse 42 2. Fellowship with other believers, verse 42 3. Prayer, verse 42 4. Teh observance of the two ordinances of the church: baptism, verse 41 and the Lord's supper,verse 42. 5. To be a testimony of God's grace and power, verse 43 6. For mutual assistance and ministry, verses 44-45 7. To reach out into the community, verses 46-47 8. To glorify and praise God, verse 47 (the single most important pritority of the local church and this is done through the body) Ok, there are a few more sections....not much and then it speaks of how to find a local church--what to look for.... 1. Pray about it. Ask God to show you which church to associate yourself with, James 1:5 2. Observe the qualities of a particular church and compare them with the biblical requirements of a proper church. a. Is there evidence of soul winning? Matt. 7:20, Acts 2:47 b. Do they believe and teach the Bible as the Wrod of God and the infallible guide for life? Titus 1:9 (I am KJV only, so our church believes the KJV will be taught) c. Is the membership encouraged to read and study the Bible as much as the leadership? Acts 17:10-12 d. Do they minister to the spiritual needs of people, Acts 6:1 e. Do they send out and support missionairies? Acts 13:1-3 Ok, that is an overview of that lesson. These lessons are great! The way they are comprised they hit every aspect of our Christian walk. Anyway, I hope this wasn't too long. I do think that was need to follow God on which church to call home. My dh and I picked a church based solely on outreach programs and children's programs...oh and that the bible was taught, of course. We went to a huge church with a lot of programs and friendly people for one year. NOT where God wanted us. The church had doctrine we think the bible does not support. We wanted a church for our family and that church seemed to fill that need. but biblically it just wasnt' there. Obviously I could not change the doctrine of the church....so we were on a journey to find a church to call home. After PRAYING! duh...why didn't I think of that sooner. We found our true church home. It is much much smaller. The children's ministries are not a big or funded as the previous church. We don't have a lot of outreach programs but we have our share. But we knew this was where God wanted us to serve. So we serve. I am an AWANA leader and sunday school teacher. My dh and I are leaders in a program called "In Touch". My dh is also a deacon. I was looking for a church with good children's programs...so I got involved to help make that a reality. This is what God wanted for my family. Possibly because I am so weak I would never have matured spiritualy unless I was so involved. lol. Small churches have a way of involving you in everything! I love it though. All I am saying is, the church you seek may not always be the church God wants you to be in. Every church as it's problems, but God may want you there to improve it.
What you say is true. I think it got through when you speak of making the youth group better by getting involved. That was a great way to put it. I took my two older kids to AWANAS last night for the first time. They loved it!! I loved the energy and the way the bible was explained to them. Not just memorizing verses for the sake of memorization but actually knowing what those verses mean. The kids had a great time and I think that promotes a healthy, positive relationship with God and church. I'll have to attend the Sunday service to really get a feel for the congregation and pastors. I too am meek and a bit not shy but, reclusive. I have to really fight myself to join in. Your words mean a lot to me....and looking for a church to serve as well as a church to serve us is top priority!!!
:| First of all, I 100% agree regarding unwed mothers being "rewarded" with elaborate showers even though the baby is being born out of wedlock. Although I don't agree with the unwed moms doing things out of order (to get married 1st) they are to be commended for choosing life! Yes I was invited to a shower for a young girl (19) that was expecting twins. I would have attended if it would have been her 1st shower. No, this wasn't her first baby shower, she had one at 16 years old for her first out of wedlock pregnacy! When I questioned if she had saved baby things from her 1st child, I was told, "well, yeah but she needs two of everything now". I replied, "she needs to go get one more of each thing that she needs, maybe from garage sales, hand me downs, ect." No response. Yes, this shower was held in a church hall also! All of us Christian women needs to let society now that it is not ok to reward immoral behavior! When the before mentioned girl was pregnant at 16, what did mom & dad do? Redecorated her room, bathroom, bought her a new car, decorated a nursery for her, and the list goes on! For this pregnancy, the fellow (different father) stayed long enough to have a shotgun wedding and they all continue tolive under mom & dad's roof (they take care of the toddler almost exclusively). This young generation needs to find morals, dignity and responsibility FAST! :roll:
bugsmommy, I couldn't agree with you more. Society today has lost it's morals more than ever. I cringed when I read your post at the part of the girl getting spoiled from her mom and dad. What does that teach them? UGH! Around here it is common for people to only have baby showers for their first baby, regardless if they are married or not. So, even though I'm married and have a son, when I get pregnant with my second one, I will not be given a shower. It's just how it is and how I was raised. No matter if I have triplets, a girl, whatever. You get one, that's it. Even with my first I still went to consignment shops, garage sales, etc. I'm sorry, but babies don't need designer clothes or even ALL new clothes for that matter.
JenPooh I agree with you 100 percent. You are dressing the baby for you not them they don't know. Yes in Wisconsin one shower is given even if you kids are 10 years apart. Thats ok.
Is it just around here that is like that (the one shower deal), or is that common all around? I guess to me it makes sense, I don't know if others would agree.
It's so funny you guys bring this one shower thing up. I am on a message board for FIAR, our curriculum, and just posted a question on this issue this morning. Check it out! I've gotten some great responses and great ideas that I never thought of! http://www.fiveinarow.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/051780.html
Generally, it's one shower here, too. We had a delema when I was teaching, because the "school social committee" policy was a shower for the first, then a nice gift from the staff for others. Well, one lady became pregnant. It wasn't her first, but her "youngest" was 17!!! Unexpected, to say the least! And she had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for this baby, so it was as if it was her first. Another gal was expecting her first, so the committee decided (with the first-timer's permission) to include the other lady in that shower. Then the chairman said that, in keeping with "the policy", the staff was buying a present for the one gal. BUT if anyone on their own wanted to get her a present, that was up to them. And most people did.
hmm I just read this thread today. I think I have something of a unique perspective on this one and I feel compelled to post. I was living in a new city and didn't know anyone.. I was very lonely and met this guy... he seemed nice but I knew he wasn't a Christian and that I shouldn't date him . Out of lonelyness I did anyways. He Date raped me. Now the truth is Sin is Sin and I knew I was not supposed to date that guy. My sin. Even so he had no right to do what he did to me. Strangely a few people who know this story get mad that I admit I sinned in dating that guy. Like just because his sin was bad makes what I did ok or something! Sin is still sin be it what society percieves as a "big" one or not. (ok I'm on a tangent.. moving on) I got pregnant and I was single and alone in a big city I was unfamiliar with. People don't always act logically in crisis situations... and I certianly didn't. I didn't tell anyone I was pregnant at first and I didn't tell anyone I was raped for well over two years. That means I had Sami and a whole lot happened while everyone was under the impression I was just sleeping around. While I was pregnant I was praying about what church to attend (I hadn't yet found one there) and one day I was driving and took a wrong exit from the highway... In driving around the block to get back I passed a little church.. I felt STRONGLY God told me that was to be my home church. I went there the next sunday.. It was odd knowing I belonged there before I ever walked in the door but it really was a chuch home.. more than any church I've ever attended.. That Church was amazing!. Those people treated me like I was their own child. They were loving and kind and welcomed me like they had always known me, then they threw me a shower, came to my house to check on me, Gave me tons of baby clothes and one family decided to give me $300 a month for as long as I lived in that city. Now these people didn't know I was raped and I didn't ask for help, they just prayed about it and decided to help me and to welcome me and to give me a shower. My Shower was held at the church too. That Churches response restored my trust in God (something I had been struggling with) It supported me emotionally and financially in a time I otherwise might have been very bad off. The percentage of Child molestations in our country is very high.. Unreported rape cases are estimated to be very high as well. It's very sad but it is true and it is a fact to consider when deciding how to treat unwed mothers. You really don't know all that went on or even how repentant they are in their hearts, only God knows those things. I'm not saying every unwed mom is that way against her will. I'm just saying you don't *really* know for sure one way or the other. Had those people given me a talk about sin and the whole hate the sin thing and then made rules about how much I could be accepted in the church as the consequence of my sin... I may never have returned to any church. I had been hurt greatly by the church I went to before that. I believe they took the course they did as the result of lots of prayer! Every unwed mother is diffrent with a diffrent story. Pray alot before you decide how to interact with her. Situations like this are very often turning point in a womans Christian life. (In a Crhistian/athiest debate once I was asked, "Why do these young girls who were never religious suddenly become zealous Christians just because they have a baby?" so it's something even nonchristians notice!) I don't think it's just that they are having a baby.. that event is big enough.. but the way we respond as a Church (the body of Christ) will sometimes make a HUGE impact on their lives. As for how to talk about these things to children.. I'm sure it has to be age appropriate but I'm not sure how do do it myself. I expect Sami to be asking me some pointed questions at any moment. When she was about 2 she asked where her daddy was.. I told her she didn't have one except for God. And then I pointed out her firends with single moms and her friend who lives with grandparents. Sesame Street reinforced it the next day with a song about families being diffrent. from them of people said anything about her dad she informed the matter of factly that she dosn't have one. That is ok for a two year old but now she is older. She asked right before her 4th B-day when she can be a sister, I told her she can't be a sister because I don't have a husband, she said ok and didn't ask again. But the Sunday School teacher pulled me aside to tell me that at every week for the last three months during prayer request time Sami requests prayer that I will get a husband soon so she can have a daddy! I'm not sure how to talk to her about this. I'm waiting for her to put my two answers together and ask how come I could have her if you can't do that without a daddy. Maybe she isn't mature enough to put them together yet. Or maybe she just thinks I'm nuts! The confusion answer Jackie posted helps some.. though I'm not sure how old to wait for her to be to go into that.
I'm glad you shared your story Syele. I can imagine that being a single mom must be hard, sounds like your doing things very well for Sami. I'm glad you have a church with such understanding shows, that the congragation there isn't judging you, but supporting you with warm hearts. If I chose a church to go to thats the kind I would look for.
Syele, I am so glad the church responded to you in that way. I am not for judging an unwed mom. I hope that isn't how I sounded. My church had a shower for an unwed mom but we didn't have it at the church. I think that is appropiate. I think the women of the church should gather together to uplift ANYONE, ANY WOMAN, who needs help. We all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, as the book of Romans tells us. Regardless of how a woman finds herself pregnant and unmarried...she needs help and prayer. She needs the support of the church. My issue is that as a society we accept this type of sin and other types of sin as normal, everyday, ok, behavior. There is nothing wrong with calling sin sin. There is something wrong for making the sinner pay for the sin by snubbing them, talkking about them, or what have you. Jesus already paid for that sin. And the sinner owes the rest of us no debt. WE are all indebted to Christ.
