My point in going to the leaders or older women wasn't to have them confront the person for you. I totally agree that we're each responsible for confronting someone who offends us. My point was that it's easier to do something in a non-offensive way if you first seek the advice of someone older and wiser. Choose your words carefully. (As you said, your old self might come out and "get snappy or punch her in the face". That's what talking to someone older is meant to avoid. Let someone help you choose how and when to approach that person. I've also found that letter-writing (not email) is a good way to get someone's attention. You can edit your words, include well thought-out scripture references without misquoting them, and you can give the person's heart time to reflect. In person, they're likely to put up a wall or lash out at you. In private, they'll have time to consider your words and can choose whether or not to respond to you without being embarrassed.
The Bible instructs us not to offend in situations like this 2 Corinthians 6 "3 giving no cause for offense in anything, so that the ministry will not be discredited," This is a minor issue and it is majoring in the minors that often turns people off from God. How offended would one of us be if someone came to us and told us we were dressed inappropriately? I think there was a post recently about someone coming up to a person and offering nice dresses for her little girl. These are females here and females are often very sensitive about what others say about that issue. Instead compliment them each time they wear a blouse/shirt/pants/skirt/dress/coat that is a little more modest and let the Holy Spirit do His job.
I typed up a nice letter and was intending on sending it anonymously. Here it is. Let me know what you all think....I am sure you will! lol! Dear Mrs. XXXXXX, I am choosing to write this anonymously so you will not feel uncomfortable around me or my spouse. For many months now I have prayed about how I can approach you regarding something that has been on mine and my husband’s hearts. I will just come out and say that first, please know this is done in Christian love, not in judgment. I love you as my sister in Christ, but I think it is important for you to know that the way that you and your older daughter dress could likely be causing men to look upon you both with lust. Many of the tops that you both wear are extremely revealing and it is most troublesome with your daughter, being how she is a young lady and an example for the younger girls in our fellowship. If my husband is uncomfortable with it and he speaks to me about it, you can be sure there are others who feel the same way, me included. If I had a son that was the age to go into the youth group meetings, I would discourage it simply because I would be putting him in a situation that would cause him to sin with lustful thoughts because of your daughter’s appearance. She is a lovely young woman, and it is likely she doesn’t know that her clothing choices are inappropriate because you, the parent, dress the same way. The Bible speaks of women’s dress and how it should be modest. Now that can be taken to mean several different things in today’s world. I know that when a man, be it a teen or an adult, sees a beautiful young lady or woman wearing tops that reveal much of their breasts, it can easily cause them to have sinful thoughts. Please prayerfully consider that yours and your daughter’s wardrobe choices may be adjusted so that the blouses that you wear are not causing distractions to others. In Christ’s Love I pray you are not offended but consider what I mentioned above to be sincere and not judgmental. Sincerely, A Sister in Christ
Maybe it's God telling you not to. I'm sorry, but if you can't approach her to her face, then I don't think you should approach her at all. Writing a letter is very 'high school' and immature, whether or not you add your name. We are adults, not teenagers.
Actually, I believe I have such strong feeling because God is TELLING me to and I don't want to. Often times being obedient to the Lord's prompting will cause you to have to do uncomfortable things. Sending it anonymously may be a cop out, I am not sure yet what I am to do.
Speak to her. I would refrain from making comments about men having lustful thoughts as that may put her on the offensive. I would ask that as a sister in Christ she consider her and her daughters clothing choices when attending church a little more carefully. As you wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong impression of them. Being that you like them it is your Christian duty to diplomatically as possible ask them to cover themselves a tad more in the house of God. You could say "I really think your clothes are very fashionable but I couldn't help but notice that they are a tad revealing.' Perhaps that would be enough to make her stop and think. Afterall she is a Christian herself. It may be it just hasn't crossed her mind that it offends anyone and your just commenting may be enough to trigger some change.
While I think you letter is nicely worded and is sent with good intentions, I can tell you that if I received such a letter, I would not be back to your church (and probably not to any other church either). I would be hurt and embarrassed. If you don't know her well enough to be able to speak to her directly then I don't feel it's your place to give your opinion on anything she does/wears. Could you try getting to know her better and wait for God to open up an opportunity for the issue to come up in conversation?
I wouldn't send it anonymusly. I'd rather have someone mad at me and avoiding me than feeling like every eye at church could be the one who sent the letter. I probably wouldn't return after getting an anonymus letter.
I agree. I couldn't go back there. Not knowing who sent it would put me on the defensive with everyone there. Other than her dress, how is she with the youth group? What if you offered to help with the group? It could give you an opportunity to get to know her better and maybe open up a conversation about how hard it is to find appropriate clothes to wear because of how impressionable that age boys are. Also, would it have bothered you as much to see her dressed that way if your husband hadn't made a comment? I know for me, I might see someone dressed inappropriately when I'm alone and just kind of roll my eyes and go on. But, to have my husband acknowledge that he had noticed it, would take it to a whole different level KWIM? So, I would have to examine my own heart and decide whether it really was a problem with the way she was dressed or whether my attitude was being clouded by a tinge of jealousy over my husband noticing someone else in that way. Not to say that the way she's dressing is appropriate. But maybe this feeling of needing to say something to her is part of that "old self" coming out than it is God telling you to say something.
I wouldn't send a letter. If you feel you need to talk to her, do it in a private conversation. I do personally feel like it is important to dress modestly, in a way that does not draw attention. My DD and I were recently shopping for Easter and church dresses, and found very little that worked for us, and we are both far from being well endowed. LOL The popular dress styles right now just don't cover a lot of realestate. If they are on a limited budget, it can be that much more difficult. I would seriously put this to prayer, and ask God to show you what would be best. Whatever you do, you want to be an encouragement and builder of faith. It may turn out that this ladies need your friendship and support, and that any comments about their dress would be harmful.
It doesn't sound like this is a minor issue at all. I was teaching a Christian homeschool drama class and wore a new outfit that consisted of leggings and a tunic. I didn't realize how short the tunic was (and didn't really pay attention, to be honest). One of the moms approached me with a gentle attitude and point out how immodest I looked. Yes, my initial reaction was to get defensive, but I immediately saw the truth in what she said. If this woman is teaching children, she should dress accordingly. Yes, she might be offended, but really, that reasoning could apply to approaching anyone over their sin. I'm sure an alcoholic could be offended at an intervention or a young woman who is sleeping around could be offended when her pastor's wife has a sit-down with her. So if we are to avoid offending, I guess we can't confront anyone. On the flip side, if this woman is dressing offensively, she is not in line with that verse, as she's discrediting the ministry. Call me a snob all you want, but if I visited a church where the childrens' worker dressed like a hooker, I would not return.
Oh, I agree in that if she is serving in a church ministry, she should be dressed appropriately. I do think it is very important that she be approached with Christian love. Do you have a relationship with her, or is this someone you only see in passing?
Well said. IF everyone is okay with it, then it's not a problem. But, from her description, it seem their clothing could be causing men to stumble. If their cleavage is causing men to stare at them with lust instead of focusing on God at church, then it is an issue that needs to be addressed. The problem is, we Christians, instead of being in the world are not only of the world but are letting the world into the church. And I don't mean inviting unbelievers into the church so they can hear the gospel, but governing our churches by the world's 'political correctness' rather than by Biblical standards. If it is making people uncomfortable, then the elders do need to say something. That is their job. As far as covering a large chest, it's not that hard. The women in my family are also very blessed up top. Most of them dress very modestly and have no more problem finding clothing that covers appropriately and more than me and my 'B' cups do. In our society, I'll admit it is sometimes hard for a woman of any size to find modest clothing. But having shopped with many of my 'blessed' family members over the years, it's not that much harder than it is for a small chested woman. And I also don't see this as a minor issue. Many men in our society struggle with pornography. Many men in our churches struggle with it. The Bible tells us adultery starts in the heart. Mathew 5 says Adultery is one of the big 10! The family structure is a big deal-it's a big part of God's plan. This could be a HUGE stumbling block for many men int he church. It is a big issue! With so many Christians fighting against GLBT rights to protect the family unit, it always amazes me how they are ready to burn homosexuals at the stake but don't speak up against all the other things that are chipping away at God's design of family-divorce, premarital sex, living together, dead-beat dads, divorce, pornography, feminism, modesty, worldliness, women working outside the home, etc. This issue is deeper than just 'what is appropriate?' as in some people think it's okay to wear pants to church some people think women shouldn't wear pants ever. Modest pants or modest skirts/dresses aren't a common stumbling block for men. Immodest dress, whether pants/shorts or dresses/skirts or tops, are a much deeper issue, IMHO. Especially during public worship where everyone's focus should very clearly be on God. Just my 2 cents.
It is minor because we are dealing with potentially driving someone away from the church or God or both for the sake of a cultural issue. Let's face it - none of us are dressing like the women of the Bible. Women hundreds of years ago would be horrified by how we dress now. Women dress in different ways around the world. The Bible doesn't say "thou shalt not show cleavage." It talks about modesty. We all interpret modesty differently. Maybe the woman believes she is being modest. Some women near where I live believe every part of the body should be covered aside from the face and hands. That is modesty to them. As for lustful thoughts where does the standard lie? I know some men are turned on by women's armpits or feet or neck. Some women believe they should cover their hair and have it only seen by their husband. This is a cultural interpretation here. Heartsathome, I urge you to show grace and love toward these sisters. Let God deal with their issues of dress.
This is a great point. I also doubt this woman and her daughter are trying to look lustful on purpose. The men also need to be held responsible for their own thoughts...not just post blame on someone else. It's kind of like saying...'Well, she made me do it'. Again, I'm not saying that anyone is 'right or wrong'...this is coming from a viewpoint from someone who has not seen them in person. It's hard to really gauge a perspective when you haven't seen the people because everyone's definition of modesty is completely different from the next. I'm not about showing all your goods off, but I'm also not bothered by a little bit of cleavage. My whole point is this: if it's 'THAT' bad and this is not just YOUR personal issue, take the issue up with the leadership and not on your own. Pray about it and wait for God to give you a door. Don't make your own door. AND please don't write a letter. No matter if you leave your name or not, it's tacky if you ask me.
I for one would have a very hard time NOT going up to her and suggesting that she go to WalMart and get a $5 t-shirt in a 3x or 4x size! If I had children that age, I'd pull them out of her group. I'd suggest that the pastor's wife go to her and advise her that "You're distracting my husband/pastor from his job on Sunday mornings"!
IMO, people who dress that way are begging for attention. I would walk up to them privately, and tell them that it's not appropriate dress for church, or that your slightly offended. I wouldn't send an anonymous letter, then the person might be defensive with everyone there, and then you've got a bad attitude problem on top of the innapropriate dress code.
I'll add my 2 cents for what its worth. If you are correct in saying that other members of the church have discussed this without anyone deciding to approach this lady and her daughter, IMO the church is guilty of as big a sin as the lady is by dressing inappropriately. If nothing has been done to speak with her but you all have stood around talking about her, you've been gossiping. Maybe the way to approach her is to admit that you've wronged her by talking behind her back and to admit that the topic has been her clothes. If she sees you are willing to admit your sin maybe she will be willing to change how she dresses. After all, you've wronged her more than she's wrong you by showing a bit of cleavage. JMO. Marty
