That's a good idea, and you are right. Although, when being discussed it is usually with other women who also don't know how to approach it. We have been trying to figure it out and speaking about it out of love, not with the wrong motives. But, nonetheless, it is gossip I daresay. Someone mentioned if I could be jealous becasue my husband noticed it, the answer is no. He was appalled by it (the daughter is 14 yrs.). It made me defensive of my church perhaps though. The fine line of legalism is hard to identify at times. In this case, it is clearly not jealousy, leagism, or judgement. It is clearly inappropriate. If I visited a church where a member's daughter who was 14 dressed like that, I prob wouldn't go back. They came after I was already a member.
For me this is a problem. If the church in general was concerned about the situation, why weren't the men included in the discussion? It's been my experience that very often the women in a church think they have to protect and prevent their men from "sinning". It's not the church ladies' job to police the congregation to prevent the men from looking. If you were really concerned about this lady and her daughter, what the men do or did would be irrelevant because you would be more concerned about the lady and her daughter's welfare. If you were concerned about the underage male population of the church (which would be reasonable) you would have taken your ds out of her class and explained politely why you were doing it. The grown men should have spoken up for themselves if they had concerns or at least been honest and admitted they were having problems with it. You can't prevent or protect someone from sinning. But you can help protect the lady and her daughter from harm because of their dress. Marty
I wondered whether to even read this thread, let alone respond to it, but here I am posting a response. I hope you don't mind a man's perspective. 1) It's a really difficult situation. As a man, I feel most uncomfortable, whether in church or elsewhere, when a lady dresses in such a way. On the one hand, I want to avoid all contact. On the other, I want to demonstrate the same kindness to all. Given today's culture and the way we tend to react to personal comments, it really is a challenge - and one faced often. 2) For the record, any 'lust' involved is in the man's heart, not the woman's, and I think this is important to remember. Secretly, I sometimes wish that all women in the church wore long and modest dresses, but society's not like that today. As a man, I am forced to be diligent and "on my guard", but so be it. That onus lies with me. 3) Thinking about this, if we were talking about something another man was doing, I'd probably make a real effort to befriend the person - not a false effort lasting days, but a real effort over time. If the person trusted me, the topic would be easier to raise. Is this something you could consider? Put aside the 'surface' issue and really get to know the person. 4) Despite the obvious care you've taken to write the letter, I agree with others that it's not the right thing to do. The person is likely to conclude that everyone in the church has been gossiping about her and decided that she's 'immoral' and doesn't belong. That's the last thing you want to happen. I'm not sure whether these comments are useful, but I throw them out there anyway.
I still think it needs to be dealt with from the authorities in the church, especially as this woman is in leadership of some kind. Marty is right regarding gossiping.
At one time I had to tell our song leader that her dress was way to short. My husband asked me to since he was a male. He was the pastor but still he felt that it was too short since he sat behind her and she bent down you could see what you did not want to see. She took it very well, was upset at first but when I explained to her that we are not here to "be looked at" but to lead in worship... she never ware anthing like that again. I would say, pray and do what you feel you are lead to do.
I wouldn't call it leadership. She volunteers to help in Children's Church...her and her 14 yo daughter. Thanks for all of your replies. I am still praying on it.
I'm in charge of children, and if I felt a person was dressing inappropriately to help with them, I WOULD say something. Though I doubt I would say something to someone OUTSIDE my "area of authority".
+1 to Cornish Steve, I think you summed up the same thought process I was having myself as I was reading along.
I mentioned this situation to my husband - a minister. Just wanted to give his perspective. He said people in church ought not be concerned with any wardrobe unless it was their own. He suggested that if this woman is on your heart then you should pray for her. I mentioned the lust issue that many had mentioned. He said that lust is the man's problem and not to be blamed upon the women. I mentioned her working in the children's department and he didn't see what difference that made.
Your husband is very wise! I hesitated to post anything, because I know my perspective on the issue of women's dress (and women's freedom to dress as they choose!) has been heavily influenced by the 3 years my mother recently spent teaching in Pakistan. I have little tolerance left for any kind of judgement on woman's modesty or character or fitness to teach children, which is based on how she dresses.
Our church has a dress code. It isn't very strict, and it isn't posted on big signs, but the elders have taken a position that men and women should come to church with their nakedness covered. The dress code for the youth group is spelled out...shorts and skirts should be finger tip length (that's still pretty short, especially for a skirt), shirts should cover cleavage, boys have to keep their shirts on, no mid-drift, no tushies hanging out of pants (boy's or girl's), no t-shirts advertising alcohol, tobacoo or illegal activities, etc. So, the elders decided where to draw the line, and they made that information available in a "positions paper" (a little pamplet) that is available in the lobby along with some other papers in which they've declared the churches position on "minor" issues. No one is going to be kicked out for violating the dress code, but by having a written guideline, no one is singled out as it is there for all to read. It also helps those who may feel like the guidelines should be stricter; they know where the church has drawn the line and accept that even though it isn't exactly where they would have drawn the line.
I completely agree 100%! Alice...I think your church is wise for writing that all out, even though it isn't a church 'policy'. If a church doesn't have this sort of thing spelled out, I do not think anything should be said to the person in question.
I'm sorry, but I see a big difference in needing a dress code when working with kids in the children's department. One year, during our church's Vacation Bible School, one of the youth girls had on very short shorts. How short? When she bent over the table to get something to help with the craft they were doing, I got an eyeful. I can tell you she was wearing a thong, and I can tell you I saw anatomy only a gynecologist should have seen. She was helping out kids who were in 5th/6th grades--- you know, the years that boys' hormones start kicking in. It was just plain inappropriate attire. As a parent, I was not a happy camper at all. Virtually anywhere you go, you will find that there is appropriate and inappropriate attire. People would have a fit if their 3rd grade child's teacher showed up in a skin tight black leather number that was so short that it showed her behind and cut so low that her breasts might as well be on a platter. Just because it's church doesn't give people a pass to wear whatever they want and still work with younger members. The woman and daughter in this scenario aren't new Christians or new members. The OP says they've been there years. If they're dressing in a way that puts private parts of anatomy on display and working with kids, that should definitely be addressed. Personally, I think it should come from the children's director and could easily be done by the director sending out a form letter addressing the need for a dress code. That way, no one is singled out, and the woman and her daughter could be politely and privately talked to about their clothing if they continue to wear it and work with kids after the letter goes out.
For what it's worth, I agree 100%! And I think some posters have neglected a key point here: The OP said she feels like God is prompting her to do something about this. Or should she ignore God because it's not anyone's place to tell another woman what to wear?
Sometimes it can be very hard to distinguish God's promptings from those of our own creating. More thought and prayer never hurts.
Well, for what it's worth, one of the men in our church ended up leaving his wife for the lady on the Praise and Worship team that dressed inappropriately. And yes, this was a strong, established marriage, with both people what you would consider "mature" Christians.
