I can kind of see your point, but I think we have to also hold him accountable for his actions. Seeing a woman dressed inappropriately does not cause a man to leave his wife. That's a choice he makes on his own.
Me too. I do see the need to talk to this woman, but I think it should be done in Christian kindness and prayerfulness, by someone who has a RELATIONSHIP with her.
In circumstances like that, the man went beyond thoughts into actions. And it sounds like the lady (not the wife) in question responded in an inviting way. Possibly, she was on the "hunt" from the beginning. Not that I ever expect that type of attention since I'm not that good looking, but I would definitely act in a different way. The first person to know what happened would be the wife and she would be told in front of the jerk!:evil: I didn't take that the lady and her daughter (from the op) were acting inappropriately. They were dressing in a manner some were uncomfortable with. If they were also acting inappropriately, that's a whole other story! And that would absolutely require church leadership intervention. Marty
Oh, absolutely he's accountable for his own actions. But I also feel this woman was "out looking", in a sense, and her dress proclaimed that. Not saying that everyone who dresses in that fashion are; not sayng that the woman the original OP was discussing is. But people involved in leadership (and that means ANYONE INVOLVED IN MINISTRY) should be held to a higher standard. And dressing where your boobs are falling out is NOT the standard! I attend a church where we have working prostitutes attend on a regular basis. No, they're not turning tricks at church, but you might see them popping out. But for them, it's the "best" they have. That's NOT what I'm talking about. We accept them where they are. But people who are mature in the Lord should be aware of what they are wearing and how it affects other people.
I remember complaining to my sister once about the outfit one of our high school youth girls had on. (My older sister is our Youth minister at our church.) Pammie said, "I understand and agree with you that her shorts are too short and tight, but I would rather have her here dressed like that than not have her here at all." I have not complained again.
Beth, it depends. WHY is she there? Our church is FOR the unchurched. The children I work with in Children's Ministry are unchurched; they come without their parents. And sometimes there are behavior problems. And sometimes we send the children home. We expect them to behave. I've heard that if "you send him home, he won't hear the Gospel!". True. But if you keep him there with his inappropriate behavior, he STILL doesn't hear the Gospel, and the neither do the children around him. If he is sent home, the children around him can hear, and there's a good chance he'll return when he's ready to behave.
She is there because she wants to be with the Youth Group? It is a chance to be with her friends? She is looking for something? She is being fed spiritually there? I don't know her thoughts. Her family doesn't come with her, but she has been coming to our church for a long time. At least 8 years. She does not come as often since she has gotten older and can drive now, but she still comes. She takes part in activities when she shows up and we just pray we have made a difference. I do not approve of the shorts or the tight tops. I hate for my sons to see her or any other girls dressed like that. I don't let my girls dress like that and they have never wanted to. They won't wear two piece bathing suits unless they look like a one piece. I try to kindly encourage our kids at church to cover up if I see something I don't think looks right, but I do agree with Pammie and want them there even if the outfit looks more like it belongs at a dance. But that is just me.
Yes, I understand what you're saying, Beth. But where do we draw the line? At camp, the kids have rules as far as dress goes. Why can't we teach the girls (and guys) what is acceptable AND WHY? She's been coming eight years, and no one has taught about modesty in dress? Not aimed at her, but in general?
Modest has been talked about more times than I can count. She chooses not to hear most of it I guess. We have not drawn a line. I think if we did we would lose some of our youth who really need to be there. The day may come where we have to say, "go home and change." But so far we have only had to hand out a tee shirt once in a while and ask someone to please put this on over your swim suit. Usually that only has to happen once for them to get the idea. We have had to remind a few of the young men that we don't want to see their underwear and ask them to pull up their pants. It isn't just the young ladies.
I kept belts on hand for the boys because they were having trouble playing basketball, etc., while trying to hold their pants up! There's only so much you can do!
Hi I am just wondering..what is your relationship with this woman like? Are you friends with her? Or is it just someone you know in passing? When you are friends with someone, conversations like this are apart of a loving friendship. When you don't really know them, they can come across as judgmental and hurtful, even when you try your best not to come across that way. I am not trying to tell you what God wants you to do, because I am NOT God and don't know. But I do know that sometimes people can "think" God's telling them to say something and really, he's just trying to get someone to pray for that situation. If you aren't really friends with her, have you considered trying to get to know her better? Maybe she really doesn't realize. Just because they are members of a church in no way makes them "perfect" and if she was raised dressing this way, she may really not see anything wrong with it. This may also be something God is using to teach you or your church...I don't know. I was raised very legalistic, and I know the damage it can do. Honestly, to the point where my mother believes the "grace doctrine" is destroying the church. I encourage you to show this woman and her daughter grace and love, no matter how you choose to deal with it. There may be more going on behind the scenes than you could ever imagine.
This is one post I can agree with. I go to a church with a very lax "dress code" (I mean people show up in jeans, others in football jerseys and others still in camo. I know that I would never say anything to her about her dress without knowing her. I think if anything God is moving you to create a relationship with this woman. If you (and others) are that worried about her and you can not keep her off your mind, then get to know her better. Either you will get to know her well enough to to offer some dress advice or you will be able to past her dress choices. As for the daughter: Pray! Pray and pray!
I love this response. Agree 100%! God may want you to say something to her, but it doesn't mean within YOUR timing...it's in HIS timing. His timing might start with building that relationship first, which may take awhile, and then He will give you that open door if He feels you should intervene.
Dress code as far as how 'dressy' is totally different from the modesty issue. Some churches would look down on on anyone showing up in jeans, any woman wearing pants, someone wearing tennis shoes, or a man not wearing a button up shirt or a suit. THAT is an issue of 'dress'. THAT doesn't matter. MODESTY is a different issue, IMHO. There is a difference in dressing casually yet modestly and in dressing immodestly. I don't care if you show up in jeans and a tshirt. There is nothing wrong with that. Honestly I don't even care if they are stained and look 'ratty'. What I do care about is people dressing in a worldly manner and causing their brothers in Christ to stumble in a place where they should be free from that, a place where they should be 100% fully focused on God. http://youtu.be/dVMZoZoKT-o And may I suggest checking out this survey of Christian guys. They asked Christian guys questions about modesty. Click on each question to see the results. Guys DO notice. It's the way God created them...to notice women... When asked 'Guys notice whether a girl dresses modestly or not.' 66.9% Strongly agree and 29.4% agree.
Update: Response You guys may think I went about it wrongly, but I was at peace about it. I know it sounds like a cop-out, and I agree, but I emailed her. Here was her response - Praise God! We had been praying God would give her a soft heart and He did. I was truly pleasantly surprised!: Im so very sorry if I have offended you or your family. I dont know if you are someone who knows me at all but if you do then you know I am not like that at all. The email you sent me is very true and I do not take offense of it but definate wisdom. I had no idea on my behalf. I would not ever on purpose try to be that kind of distraction for anyone. And will definately take notice from now on. As for my daughter, I am always always always on her but if you know her at all... she is 15 yrs old and is a 34F!!!!!!! Yes, F! We are in the process as we speak of having her consult for SURGERY for a reduction. That is an extreme and awful thing for a child and I can assure you she does not put her breast out there on purpose. She wants them OFF at any extreme. That would be the part I did take offense to. That she shows them off because that is what Ive taught her. That is not true at all. But I appreciate your advice and direction and will work harder at being a better example.
Carrie, not sure what you said, but it obviously was said very graciously to have been received like that!
That was a very sweet reply. I'm glad your e-mail was kindly received. So sad that her daughter is already thinking about a reduction. That seems so extreme for such a young girl.
