This isn't meant to start a pro/con argument about Halloween. It's just a vent about Brownies. The leader has decided to have a Halloween party next week. Costumes, ghoulish games, the whole nine yards. I'm ticked. I don't agree with Halloween and I don't think Brownies is the place for it. Let the families do this at home. There are plenty of references to God and Christianity in the handbooks, so where do witches and the like fit? I'm almost positive Jeanne will be missing next week. I hate being put on the spot like this and I feel rotten keeping Jeanne home. If I go back on my beliefs to let her go, how does that make me look as a Christian mom? Ugh.
I guess some people just don't understand it's a controversial issue. I'd be keeping my daughter out too. I guess one positive is with homeschooling Jeanne will have less contact with Halloween things and you wont have to put up with weeks of it as a classroom theme which some schools do. I just hope it never gets popular over here.
(((hugs))) for your daughter. It is hard for youngesters to understand why we must not participate is somethings even though it seems fun. Is she upset by this or is she ok with it? Sometimes kids are more understanding that you think. At least after you explain to them why you as a family are not participating in such and such event.
She doesn't know about the party, although she knows Brownies is coming up. I'm not sure how I'll tell her. She is the real loser here.
I am so not trying to make this an arguement. We actually do let the girls dress up for Halloween and thankfully they have no desire to be anything goulish or gros - just cheerleaders and princesses. They see it as playing dress up and getting free candy. However we respect everyone's decision to do what they want within their family. My very good friend and next door neighbor doesn't agree with Halloween either. Every year at the local elementary school the kids have a costume parade and her children can't participate so they sit in the library. The oldest who is now in 8th grade never minded sitting out but the little girl who is in 1st grade was just kept home last year on that day so she wouldn't feel like she was the only one sitting out. What my friend and her husband did was just to sit them both down and tell them exactly why they don't agree with Halloween. The kids understood and feel fine about it. I'm sure your daughter will be expecting to go to scouts next week and will wonder why your not going. Just explain it plainly to her exactly why your family doesn't agree with it and maybe choose to do something special that evening with her.
I was a brownie leader for one year. The initiation ceremony was enough to turn me off of it. I know, I know, all innocence. But when druidistic rituals are implimented at so young an age, it certainly builds a tolerance for it in those young girls. It really bothered me. Anyway, just because it mentions God, does not mean it is a Christian organisation. It's just tradition now, like so many other things that started out Christian. They probably have no inkling whatsoever anyone would have a problem with it. I'd just simply let them know that you don't celebrate Halloween. Do it with a smile, matter of factly, and with no grudge. They will likely not bat an eye - though I'm so sorry your daughter will miss out. It's always hardest on the kids because they don't understand, and that makes it hard on us moms. (((hugs)))
When I was first married, DH had much stronger feelings about Halloween than I did. His boys weren't allowed to take part. The school actually had activities in the gym for those who opted out of the Halloween Party. (I don't know, maybe an "un"Halloween Party, where you still got candy and cookies, just not pumpkins, etc....?) I think they did that one year, and had him stay home the next. But, as a former teacher, I know it's hard to stay away from it. So many of the dittos, etc. have a Halloween theme! I would chose that time to teach about the Human Skeleton, and we would have tagboard (ie: CARDSTOCK, Deena!!!) skeletons hanging around the room, but the kids could also explain the purpose of the skeleton, etc. I also found a GREAT tape called "Fright Night: Music that goes BUMP! in the night". It was classical music with a "scary" scene. It had "The Scorcerer's Apprentice", "Night on Bald Mountain", "Hall of the Mountain King", etc. We would listen to it, and talk about the PATTERNS you would hear in the music, how some "tunes" kept repeating, sometimes slow, sometimes fast, sometimes with different instruments, etc. The kids LOVED it!
Valerie- what happens at an initiation ceremony? I've been to a bridging ceremony, and nothing seemed unusual there.
I wish I could remember the specifics, but it was this dance around a pond and reciting a poem and at the end they looked into it and said, "Myself, the elf." It wasn't horrible. But it just led kids in the wrong direction, you know? I was uncomfortable.
could you call the brownie leader and tell her your feelings about halloween and ask her to have a harvest party? You should explain that Jeannie doesn't want to miss out, but your beliefs against celebrating halloween would keep her from doing so. We do halloween in the cute dress up way, carve pumpkins and have lots of candy. I've been craving pumpkin seeds, but I think I'll have to buy them, last few years I burned them.
This isn't to cause a problem either, it was just a decision we made. We were taking Karate, but being Christians (the Bible says, "...thou shalt not bow down to them or serve them"), it bothered us to bow down to the sensei. I don't mind the standing and bowing a little from the waist as a greeting, but at the end of the class, everyone getting down on all fours, putting your arms forward and bowing toward the sensei, just didn't seem right to us. for the same reasons as Valerie said---it just made us uncomfortable. We don't dress up for Halloween either. We used to go to some friends house, since they were out a ways and didn't get trick-or-treaters. We'd just have a "family night" type thing with them, and the kids loved that. Those friends just moved away, so we're not sure yet what we'll do this time. Becky, could you get together with friends on that night, or take her to a movie or something special, so she wouldn't feel like she's missing out?
This isn't to start anything and I do not want to offend anyone. That said, when you choose to be apart from the world (as the bible says) you have to understand that it means your family will not be able to participate in somethings. If you make it out like your child is missing out on something then they will think that they are. If you don't then they won't. Our family has things that we do not do. Our children have been told since birth that these activities are no-nos. They have never once complained or felt left out when we didn't attend such an event. I also do not do something to subtitute the event because that in itself says that there was something to miss. The fact is we live in a sinful world and as christain parents we need to arm our children. The world will always have people doing sinful activities.The only thing we as parents can do is arm our children with the knowledge of the bible as to why they must not do certain things. I hope no one took this wrong. I didn't intent for it to be offensive. I just felt like God was telling me to build you all up in confidence when you choose to abstain from worldy activities and to stop thinking you are scarring your children when you do so.
I wasn't allowed to do anything on Halloween as a kid. My mom closed all the windows and all the curtians and turned off all the lights so i'd look like no one was home. I generally felt like I was missing out and also like we weren't "set apart" but like we were hiding. So now, I let Sami dress up in a Biblical theme or as an animal or princess. We give out the best candyon the block with tracts or some fun Christian themed toy. Last year I gave our Narnia posters cause I had been given 100 of them. I used to participate in the Church harvest party but as of two years ago I got upset that it was not a "Harvest Party" as much as a Halloween party. I'd still do if it was lesss... ghoulish. I'm thinking this year of going to a different church Harvest party. I wouldn't let Sami go to the Brownie party either if it was all out Halloween, and I'd let the leader know why. They need to know that there are different religious ideas in the world than just their own. You'd think something with a Christian 'tradition' would be more sensitive to the beliefs of Christians.
I've emailed the leader and all she said was that other moms asked for this and she liked the idea, too. She said let her know if Jeanne will be there or not. Let me clarify something- I don't care if they have this halloween party, but I don't think it should be replacing a meeting. My child is being kept out because she's choosing to eliminate a regular meeting for this stuff. I've sent a second email, asking if there will be even a small meeting before the party. I'd send Jeanne to that, then we'd leave before they get started. I'm not trying to ruin anyone else's fun here.
Well sounds to me like the leader doesn't really care one way or the other about your beliefs. I wouldn't go at all meeting or not. Just my opinion.
I don't see why they can't have a dress up party but leave out all the goulish and evil looking stuff. We trick or treat, carve pumpkins, and play games. Nothing evil or scary looking is involved, just the fun innocent party type stuff. I guess you could call it a fall party, but we dress up too. They can still have their party but I think they should be more considerate of other's feelings in this situation.
But the dressing up, trick or treating, all that is part of it. That's how I believe. I know some see it as innocent, and I get that. Have a costume party another day. Make leaf or scarecrow desserts, play fall theme games and fall crafts. Tiffany- you hit it right on the head. The tone of her email was she doesn't care if Jeanne is there or not. I'd like to tell her we'll never be back, but the girls all like each other and I'm not anxious to pull Jeanne out.
Maybe on that day you and Jeanne can have a fun mother daugher night/day or something? Plan something special for her in place of missing out on it. I agree, it did sound like the leader didn't care, which I find disrespectful.
Becky I understand the desire to just pull her outta that group and never come back. I would feel the same way too!! If Jeanne likes the girls there and it is important to her to be in that girl scout group then it is so hard as a parent to actually pull her from that. I said before that my girls do dress up and trick or treat but always as a princess or something sweet. But I totally respect your decision to not celebrate Halloween and it is very rude of the leader to have the attitude she has. Stick to your guns girl you are doing the right thing!!!!
