Hey Beck, is this the same leader of the "snotty" girl, or is this a new troop this year? Just curious. I probably would want to pull her out too if it were me. I'm glad you have more patience than me. I agree too, stick to your guns. Your beliefs are your beliefs and you shouldn't have to compromise them.
The troop leader should make sure that all the brownies could attend! It is not hard at all to not go goulish and add more of a fall harvest theme! It sounds like the leader just does not want to go out of her way to accomidate (sp?) everyone. Is there another troop near that yall could join? Blessings, Shawna
Emma's ballet class is allowed to dress in their costumes and ballet slippers. The studio provides snacks,drinks and candy. The children can wear what ever they please so many come dressed in very distasteful costumes. The same will happen this year and so I decided she is not going this night and she did not go last year either. I direct the yearly Harvest Festival at our church and allow Ems to dress for this. It is an awesome outreach and has brought people to the Lord in the past. Last year three boys came in as they were Trick-Or-Treating. All the games are Christian based for the most part and we have people who volunteer to do nothing but greet and witness. They had a chance to plant a seed in these three boys hearts. As people come in they are asked to sign up for a drawing. One person wins and the pastor visits the others homes to talk with them if they are willing to listen. Well, two days later the pastor went to visit the family of one of the boys. When he told the parents that their son had visited our Harvest Festival and that he would like to share the message of salvation with them, the parents both burst into tears. The night after the Harvest Festival the boy was killed. He was hit by a car and died. This is why I love the idea of reaching out through a Harvest Festival. Many people will not step into a church unless it is to get candy once a year. This night a seed was planted. I do not know if the boy gave his life to Christ but hopefully when he was hit by the car he remembered what he was told the night before. Patty
This is from " A Brownie Tale", the story that Brownies hear about being helpful to others. It does imply of a "fairy-like" Brownie who tells the girls to help others. The story is in the Brownie handbook. We gave Brownies a try last year. They had a "Fall Ball" instead of a Halloween party, but the girls still dressed up. We didn't participate. We dropped out of Brownies this year, because GSA come out in support of abortion. Since my feelings on that subject go beyond strong, we got out. Becky, if this is the same group you had so much trouble with last year, I'd find another group. I agree with the others that instead of making a big deal out of what she is missing, use this as a time to reinforce your beliefs.
Patty, I agree that Harvest Fesitvals at church are a tremendous outreach. You can reach an entirely different population than the Sunday morning crowd.
Thats what we do, have harvest parties at church, or festivals, in the past it has been really fun. Kids at the church schools tend to dress up too, they wear pjs and have pj parties during the school days. So there are fun ways to avoid the gooooolies, I feel sorry for the kids whose groups go that way and ruin it for them. I have to ask myself if the kid would be enjoying being scared anyway?
Our church is having what they call a Pumkin Fest this year - basically a fall festival. We also run a pumpkin patch each year and this year we handed out flyers on our festival and invited people from teh community to come. I had one family ask if the kids could dress up - our response to this is "sure they can if they'd like to". We don't want someone not to come simply because they can't dress up. If we can get people to come to the fest them maybe they will come to church on Sunday too.
I was thinking of taking photos at ours, have to talk with pastor yet for permission. but the idea was that I would have them printed and ready for them on Sunday morning at Kids church... that way they come to church and get a free photo of kids in costume or not. I have the photo printer and paper so it wont be a cost at this point to me and so that may work as a good draw them into thechurch. Our childrens church is called "Master Blast" and they have a blast at it! So this may be a great evangelistic tool? What do you all think?
I think that's a great idea. O mega-church in the city wher ewe used to live had a prosessional photographer (church member) take photos. I think we had to pay $5-7 for a photo. It took about 2 weeks for us to get them back. I think they gave them out on a Sun. morning, too. My dh was Min. of Music at another church, and I always had to get a friend to pick mine up. By making the photos free, you will appeal to a much larger group. People are always looking for the free things in life... Maybe they will see the free gift of a relationship with Christ in the meantime!
I like the idea and agree. Not only are people looking for something free, many people also think that churches are always asking for money and this is not an idea you want to convey in anyway. At our Harvest Festival all things are free. Some people in the church think we should charge for the food at least but it is and always will be free, as far as I know. The boy I mentioned in an earlier post had wanted to eat when he came in and asked how much the food cost. All three boys were sifting through their pockets to see how much they can come up with. I told him the food was for free and he smiled and put a $1.00 bill on the table anyways. It was a nice thought on his part. I like the idea of photos. Every Sunday after the festival someone makes up a film of all that went on and plays it for the church. This way new people feel part of the church when they see their childs face flash across the screen and hear everybody laughing and enjoying the film. Great job TM! Patty
Becky, I totally understand what you are going through. I hate the Halloween thing. I don't even subsitute for halloween. I would feel like I was trying to be part of the world yet trying to put an innocent face on it as not to feel guilty. That is just me. We do not celebrate Halloween at all. So, I understand your concern. I especially understand since my church is having a dress up, passing out candy, pretending it is not halloween AWANA activity. This ticks me off. That is going to be the whole night! To not allow my kids to participate in a church activity based on conviction is so WEIRD to say the least. I know the AWANA director is not trying to be wrong. She is a wonderful lady. I just don't think church is the place for Halloween type stuff. I can top a hamburger in steak sauce and grilled mushrooms and wrap it in gold but at it's core it is still a hamburger. So, for those who are convicted against Halloween, this just doesn't make sense. I don't want to appear to not support my church but this is just nuts. I almost feel like it is me who is wrong. But my dh simply said, "we don't celebrate Halloween and this looks and smells like Halloween so forget it." that was it, end of discussion. lol. Now, please don't think I question anyone who does Halloween stuff. This is my family's conviction. I can only deal with one spiritual walk at a time....so I choose my own. LOL. Some don't have the same conviction. I am sure some are convicted about things I am not convicted about.
I do think substituting a Halloween activity for Awana would bother me. I can see where it could cause a lot of tension for those who want to support their church, but choose not to celebrate Halloween. Have you talked to your Awana commander about it? Maybe even a carnival-type thing with no costumes could be an alternative. One church where my dh served as Min. of Music had a Noah's Ark party every year on Halloween. The kids could dress up, but only as Biblical characters. There was candy and games. THis was no where near the scale of some of the Harvest Festivals put on now.
I'm not against Harvest festivals in general. And origionally I was OK with the one at my church. They have carnival type games and free food and they put on a play that tells a Bible story and follow it by an "alter call". The idea sounded good enough to me, so the first two years I participated in it. I refused to go last year cause the year before I noticed... 1. ANY costumes were allowed. (The Pastors said it is an outreach to unchurched people and uncurched people should be allowed to wear whatever they want to church. But I also saw several Ghosts and Devils among our church members children.) and 2. I was telling a moral story in the story telling booth about how Children should treat others nicely and obey their parents using a jack-o-Lantern as a visual. One mother stood up, interrupted the story and said "Come on kids!! You don't have to be subjected to THIS!" And stormed out of the room. The woman and children were still allowed to participate in the rest of the activities and the leaders didn't see that the people coming to our party saw it as Halloween and not a Church event. Period. I also noticed there were lots of people who came for the carnival and were VERY careful to leave before the play began. At what point these things cross over the line is a fine one. The Church purposely set all their major Holy Days on days when Pagans were celebrating other things. All Saint's Eve/day is supposed to be our Honoring those who lived exemplary lifes for Christ. I would have no problem with kids learning about them and dressing up like them. Or Bible Story related. I refuse to allow Satan to decide I can't give my kids candy on a certian day of the year without honoring him. At the same time.. we have to honor God in all we do. If AWANAS and Brownies cross that line there's no way I'd let my kid go. You are totally right to skip that night!
Reading these posts made me think about one year when my twins were in youth. They had to dress up as a Bible person for a youth activity and try to be original. One of my girls dressed in all white, powdered her hair, covered her face in white make up and when they asked who she was she poofed a powder puff of baby powder in her face and said, "I am Lot's wife!" She won the contest. Beth
I think a bible character contest would be so much fun! I just don't want it to get mixed in with Halloween. My dd was just in a wedding and wore this white mini bride dress. I told my dh that if we let her dress up (which is a no. lol) she could wear that and be the bride of Christ. Dh didn't think the kid's would get that the bride of Christ is the church but a play on the bride of frankenstein. lol. That would really be bad. I should mention Awana having a bible character dress up contest at another time of the year. I hate that some people think that I just want my kid to miss out on costumes and candy. As if I have a problem with that aspect of it. My kids know the history of Halloween and what all the symbols and dressing up and trick or treating means. So, I would look stupid if I compromised now. I must admit there are times I wish I did not possess that knowledge. lol. Before I was a Christian I LOVED Halloween. Maybe that is why I am so against it now.....I associate it so much with my life before Christ. Maybe that is why those who grew up Christian and have fun with it can justify it because they don't have the same associations. For instance, I do not like Christian Rock. I don't think a Holy God is glorified by that junk. However, I used to go to clubs and listen to all kinds of junk music. I associate that sound and alternative music sound with clubs, drinking and that worldly sinful life. Maybe without that association I would think differently. My kids won't associate Christian Rock the same way because they don't hear secular music. So by the time they will want to buy Christian Rock, they won't have my negative assocaitions, so to them it may not be dishonoring.....ya think? Am I way off base? Being that so much of your walk is a heart issue and not legalism....different people will have different convictions. Of course a lot will be the same and very much clear, I know. Anyway, just kinda thinking out loud....out type....lol.
For instance, I do not like Christian Rock. I don't think a Holy God is glorified by that junk. Okay I just have to ask this question. What is wrong with Christian Rock? Why do you think it's junk? We obvisouly have very different views on things and I am not trying to start and arguement - I am honestly interested in you answer. I LOVE Christian Rock!! I love Christian Rap for that matter. I think a Holy God is glorified by music that praises His Holy Name and that includes rock and rap, not just hymns. I know many people (myself included) who get pumped up and excited about God's love for us when the music is loud and rockin' and people are clapping and hands are raised. Hymns just don't do that for me. To each there own though. To me calling it junk and saying God isn't glorified by it is like saying those of us who do enjoy it are not real Christians.
I agree. It is just another way of proclaiming Jesus. We have an older gentleman that complained about one of our worship services one day. He complained about the type of music...mostly contemporary Chrisitan was played, up beat and rockish. After he was done complaining, our music director asked him "what part didn't God like do you think?". The man was caught dead in his tracks. I would highly doubt that God is going to protest any kind of song that is glorified in his name. To think that God can't be glorified through just another genre of music I think is just a tad ridiculous, sorry to say...just my opinion.
We just went to a class on Christian music, which looked at the different types of music. I have to agree with Ava Rose, in that a lot of the rock music beat is from cultures where the beat that they play on the drums, and the loud, wild type music is used to call the spirits to come join them. Some people that are really into it could tell you which spirit they are calling, depending on the beat. Rap music would fall into that category also. I know many of you won't agree, but even the rock singers say that's what they're doing! As for Christian rap and rock, well, the Bible says we are to come apart from the world, be different, and holy. If we play the same music just switch some of the words around, how is that different? It sounds the same, it looks the same..... If we don't neccessarily agree with Halloween because of where it came from and what it means, then maybe we need to be careful of the music we listen to also, because of where it came from and what it means??? I have lots of friends around here, and all of them are at different places with this. In fact, our very, very best friends LOVE Christian Rock! We're still the best of friends! It's okay with me if you don't agree with what I think. God made us all different, and we're all at different places---and that's okay!
I love christian rock also. Ava Rose, I do see where you are coming from since you associate it with your past. But as a christian it is important to realize that God made EVERYTHING!!! (reread genesis) There is nothing new under the sun (eccl 1:9) and EVERYTHING was meant to glorify God. That means that we can use it for good or evil. It is OUR choice. Remember God judges not on outward appearances but by the heart.(1sam16:7b) If your heart glorifies him in all you do then you are not sinning. (mt 7:18) I want to encourage you to prayerfully reflect on your way of thinking. make sure what your thoughts are ones based on the bible and not by your opinion based on your past. Remember that when God saved you he wiped your slate clean. Let him wipe out your evil thoughts of your past and look at it in a God glorifying way. ((hugs)) **this was not meant as an attack. If I am wrong I want to know so that I can stop sinning. The bible is comeplete for edification. So if there are bible verses that say no to christian rock I would like to know. If there isnt' any verses then it can't be wrong because the bible is comeplete.
I never thought of it that way. I am truly sorry if that is how it sounded. I was trying to explain that I, ME, Personally ME, associate the sound with a time in my life where I was clubing, drinking, and sinning. So, when I hear the sound, not the words, just that sound it brings back memories of those old days. Again, this is my personal flaw. That is why I said that my kids won't have that association so, I am sure they will hear it the same way you do. Surely, I am missing out on another beautiful way of glorfiying God due to my own flaw. I just can't see how it does....because it reminds ME of my old college days. Which is clearly why I did not or....didn't mean to imply it was bad in and of itself. I listen to all types of Praise and Worship music, not only hymns. Hymns were written in a beautiful church age and often reflect scripture. The lyrics are beautiful. However, I also enjoy Third Day (which I did not consider christian rock) and stuff like that. However, whenever music throws ME back into a time in my life that did not glorify God, that is what I think of. So, I am so sorry that I did not communicate that correctly. I was trying to make the point that our personal assications with things can color our viewpoints on what is acceptable and what isn't. Music really motiviates me and means a lot to me. Maybe that is why some of those old associations are strong. Maybe I should just get over it. LOL. But by no means would I ever purposely imply that you or anyone else is not real Christian when it comes to music or stuff like that. My fault for the poor communication. My bottem line point again, was our personal assocations with things can color our perceptions and that can determine what we find to be right or wrong. I am not promoting relativism mind you. So, to your question on what I find wrong with Christian Rock. I find my past wrong with it. I think that if you listen to it and you feel you are glorifying God than you most certainly are. Thanks for mentioning it. I never thought of it the way you said it. Maybe I will just get past my past and give it another listen! Seriously, I think I may. I will have to say that some of the Christian music I have heard sounds so worldly that I do have difficulty seeing how it, even without my bias, can be glorifying to God. Just because you scream God into a microphone does that make it Godly?? Seriously, that is not me being sarcastic. You see, I was at the Christian bookstore and there was this Christian band playing that sounded a bit like Nine Inch Nails and the guy keep screaming Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. To me, that was just weird. Now, this could be me not seeing it correctly or it could be because it is wrong. Don't really know, now. Again, it was an illustration about our past coloring our spiritual perceptions on what is Godly and what isn't, more than my commentary about music.
