What denomination are you?

I'm a more natural leader too. I always give dh the reigns on decisions but sometimes he hands them right back to me!! LOL! My dh always has the final say so - not because he is a bully - but because he is the head of this household. More times than not he wants me to be the decision maker, in which case he has still had the final say. His final say was for me to make the decision.

Wow that made more sense in my head than when I typed it! LOL!

I would also like to say that my dh never puts me in a shadow! I submit to him willingly. I think a lot of people have messed up ideas of what submission is. Godly submission. We have mutual love, respect, trust, ect. But he is the head of household - after God of course.

 

I'm not a submissive wife either. I have no doubt it works for many couples but it's not something I'm keen to try. It's not a doctrine or even a concern in my church so it's not one for me.

We're the weirdo christians here Crazymama!

 

My dh can be like this sometimes, too, especially if he thinks it's something affects me more. But I know he's there to bounce things off of, and he'll share his opinion.

 

What I am about to say in no way is meant to be directed at any one person. It is a simple question that is not meant to start crap here. I just really want to know.

With that disclaimer I will ask my question.

If someone is a Christian they believe that the Bible is the word of God and the complete truth. None of it is made up. Well if the Bible says a woman is to submit to her husband then how can someone who claims to be a Christian not believe in submitting to her husband? I mean isn't that picking and choosing what parts of the Bible you want to believe and what parts you believe don't matter?

Seriously please do not throw things at me or think I am picking on anyone. I'd like to hear the answer.

 

Tiffany, I would say you are right on. I think that if we believe differently than a book we claim is true than someone is wrong...and it isn't the Bible. lol I know that is simple but it is true. You cannot pick and choose what you believe. If you are then you are using the Bible like a reference manual and not your life's plan. I also think it is prideful and a lack of faith to pick and choose. (ok...getting those tomato pitching arms ready.)

Also, submission is not being a doormat. If your dh allows you to make a decision that is his choice. Therefore you are submitting...does that make sense? I mean my dh allows me plenty of decisions. Although he does have final say in all things. There are even decisions I make without consulting him....as long as I know those are the decsisions he has entrusted to me. Does that make sense?

 

It makes perfect sense. I really believe that so many men and women have false views of what submission really is. Submission is designed by God to create a marriage based on Christ's love for the church. Submission protects a marriage. It does not hinder it. Biblical submission is in no way degrading to a women. It is an glorious example of Christ's love for us.

I believe that the Bible is inerrant, and that you cannot pick and choose what works for you. Believing that the Bible is inerrant means that I believe I should submit to my husband, because the Bible commands it.

 

No problem! I'll start here...

First off though, what does Word of God, truth and made up mean to you?

Word of God means to some people that the bible is literally written as God wished and is inerrant and a literal account. Others think it's means divinely inspired and inerrant. Other, and here I am, think it was written by men and not inerrant.

None of the above beliefs means it can't contain truth if your definition of truth doesn't mean fact. Truth in the sense that a love poem can be a complete fiction and yet still contain truth.

 

Not being an inerrantist doesn't mean you simply pick and choose, it means the tools you use to read and interpret the bible are different from an inerrantist.

I've never met an approach that didn't involve picking and choosing. That seems most obvious when it comes to Leviticus...Who does stone their local adulterers these days? Of course people have very good reasons for picking and choosing but that doesn't mean they don't do it.

 

great discussion, I appreciate every one's kindness to each other.

As for me and my dh, He is a leader through and through. I still make a lot of decisions, ones I know he doesn't mind me making, but he has the final say.

its funny though, we can never decide on where to eat when we eat out, we are both pretty indecisive (me more so than him lol)!

Its interesting, I tend to believe the whole Bible, I have no issues with the NT, which speaks of submission in several areas. Now, the OT is a whole different issue, which I am trying to come to grips with, because there were certain things, like Sabbath and feasts that were "forever and ever" things. But I am not getting into all that, because I am just now trying to sort all that stuff out lol. But I will say, that IF I follow anything in the OT, it would be out of love, not for salvation.

When I am studying the Bible, I believe that for the most part the Bible is far more simple than we humans make it. We have a bad tendency to over analyze at times. It was a long time before I became fully convinced of headcovering, but when I finally dug into it, and thought about it, it all made sense to me, and it was far simpler than I had originally made it!

One thing that God lead me to, when I was worrying about how to explain my beliefs without making others feel like I was telling them to go and do what I do, was Romans 14. Beautiful passage Speaking about our Christian liberty, and respecting our brothers and sisters who are not convicted to do the same things we do.

 

Oh shucks. We'll get around to throwing things at each other soon.

Dibs on the tomatoes!

 

Ok...dawninns get your tomatoes ready....

I believe that having the Word of God is essential to a Christian's growth. One of the main things that separate Christianity from other "religions" is it's claim to an absolute written authority from God. All "experiences" are to be judged by the infallible standard which is greater than any experience.

Ok..I know you don't believe me so here is scripture.

Psa. 119:9, Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to they word.

2 Tim 3:16-17, All scripture is given by inspiration from God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Peter 1:21, For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

2 Peter 1:23 says a man is born again "by the word of God"

Romans 10:17, "So than faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God."

James 1:21 says the word of God is "able to save your souls"

Paul's summary of the gospel contains four parts in 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4, which includes "According to the scriptures."

Peter said that the Word of God was MORE SURE than the physcial appearance and audible voice of God.

2 Peter 1:16-21 compared with Matthew 17:1-9

God's word is Jesus Christ!

The universe was created by the spoken Word of God. Hebrews 11:3, Psalm 33:6 and Genesis 1:3

I can't understand how one can "pick and choose" or fell the bible is up for debate because of the imperfections of man and still securely believe in his or her salvation. I believe the evidence is clear that the bible is the infalliable word of God. I also feel that God can surpass all human error to bring forth His precious Word. Jesus is a manifestation of the Word and He was sinless even in a sinful world. Jesus was perfect in an imperfect world. I feel sorry for those who miss out of all the blessings the Lord has because they cannot understand that the bible is God TALKING to you...perfectly.

Now, don't begin talking about translations....I am KJV only...so I gotcha there too. Had that discussion before not sure if I want to get into it again. Actually I am sure I don't. lol.

 

I would like to add some questions, since everyone's getting tomatoes and things ready to throw anyway: If you believe the word of God, Jesus, the Bible, is the infallible word of God (which I do), and you can't pick and choose what you use and don't use, then that would mean ALL of it, right? Old Testament, New Testament?

If the answer is yes, then does that include the 10 commandments?

If that answer is yes, then what about the 4th commandment? Someone was mentioning about Sabbath. If the 10 Commandments, written by God's own hand, say, "Remember (because it was first intituted at creation in the Garden of Eden) the SEVENTH day to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor and do all thy work, but THE 7th DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD THY GOD...."

Just curious.....yikes, watch out for the tomatoes!!!

 

Just got back home and jumping back into the discussion.

Do I really need to say anything - I always agree with AVA!! LOL!

Okay I am by no means a Bible scholar but I believe that some of the old testement was over ridden by the new testement when Jesus died on the cross.

I can't quote scripture like some ladies can I just know what I believe and I do believe that the Bible is kind of like a handbook for life. Especially Proverbs. I believe the Bible is the infalliable word of God.

 

Very well put dawninns! This is where I am.. When I read the bible or think of the lessons in it I constantly picture a group of school kids sitting around playing telephone. Do you remember what happens in a game of telephone? What starts out "I eat hamburgers for lunch" ends up "Joey ran across the road and went swimming in Cade's pool while wearing Jessica's bathingsuit". I see it being a story that was passed down and passed down and eventually written by men.

Guess I can make some more of my wonderful sauce with those maters!

 

Great idea! Can you share the recipe?

 

Yep.. scrape up what you can, throw it in a pot with some peppers and onions, add some garlic, oregano, a dash or two of salt and pepper and wala there you go!

 

LOL, must have been the squishy tomatoes? LOL

 

well don't worry the tomatoes have all came south those babies and sure made some wonderful sauce we had on our noodles tonight ladies thanks so much.

I always tell my girls and who ever wants to listen which isn't many but thats ok, GOD made all of different because there are so many different things out there for all of us to see and do and so many reilgion for us to go and explore to learn and decide. We all have to remember God made us and we all are special no matter what anyone says to you or does to you. YOU are GOD's child.



duckie the tomatoes..... those tomatoes up north are getting cold and hard...

 

This will be my last comment as I feel the Word is not getting the respect that it deserves. Don't worry I am upset or offended this is just my point of departure.

Deena...I want to address you question about taking the whole Word. We are supposed to rightly divide the word....2 Tim 2:15. The bible is written in dispensations. All of it is true and all is perfect....refer again to the verse that says all is of the inspiriation of God. However, some books of the bible are written to the Jews, the tribulation Jews, the Gentiles and so forth. This would take a quite a few posts for me to fully explain dispensations if the concept is new to anyone here. However, knowing history, doctrine and practical applications along with pictures of the old and new testament would also aid someone in this understanding. The Bible is not so one dimenisonal that if we no longer sacrifice animals that the old testament is obsolete. That happened in a certain dispensation. The NT and OT are obvious dispensations. The church of law and the church of grace. Nothing is incorrect or obsolete...ALL is profitable or scripture wouldn't say so. I really feel bad for those with so little faith. Not directing that at anyone in particular just a mindset in general.

Again, if one truly believes the bible to be as unholy as the telephone game how can one truly believe and feel secure in his or her salvation?

The bible is infallible. Being that I am KJV only I have no use for the argument of other translations. However, this is my point of departure. I have given scripture and I will allow the Word (which is promised not to return void) speak for itself as it should.

 

Mathew 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." Jesus took the beating for the adulterer. Isaiah 53:5 "But he was wounded for our transressions, he was bruised for our iniquities..." On another message board someone asked about stoning the rebelious son. I'm not sure were that is from, but it's the same thing. Jesus took that beating too. It's not that the law doesn't mean anything, it's that Jesus fulfilled it.

Deena asked about the Ten Commandments and the Sabbath. (Sorry, I can't figure out how to quote a second message)

Yes, the Ten Commandments still stand. II Cor. 3:3 "Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart" When we are saved and follow Christ, He writes the commandments on our heart. He causes us to want to do right. But again He didn't do away with the law, in fact He made it easier for us to follow because now His spirit helps us.

As for the Sabbath, absolutly the Sabbath was from the beginning and still is. I observe the Sabbath, not strictly but I do take advantage of that day to rest, my church holds services on the Sabbath. But having said that, Jesus also said that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So I think the most important thing is just to go to church/ rest on some day, whether it be Saturday, Sunday or whenever.

Lisa