What denomination are you?

But the Bible doesn't say Sabbath is any day, there are a few places in the Bible where it talks about the 7th day being "the Sabbath of the Lord thy God." To me it sounds like we should still be keeping the 7th day, or Saturday, as the Sabbath.

I believe the laws of Moses were done away with when Jesus died on the cross. Those were laws "written by hand" that wer not needed anymore because Jesus became that sacrifice. Plus a lot of the rules and things needed for the people Moses was leading---just to keep order and all, were part of that. That's what the Bible says. But the laws written by GOD, the 10 Commandments, were not done away with, as far as I can find.

I like looking up this stuff, so when this subject came up, I just thought I'd toss that in to see what people thought.

Ava, were you thinking I was questioning the infallibility of the Bible? I believe in the Bible as the infallible word of God! I'm not sure exactly what you were answering. My question was only if we do believe in the infallibility of the Bible, then do we honestly believe and follow EVERY part? Including the 4th commandmentment, which is where I see a lot of differences, so was just curious as to what people thought, since I happen to be studying in that area right now.

 

I was speaking in general and not directly to you. I did answer your question to the best of my ability without turning this into a bible dispensation 101, lol, in the paragraph before the one you quoted. I knew you believed the bible to be infalliable. I was speaking to you in the paragraph before and then in genernal in the rest of the post. Sorry for the confusion.

 

I agree wholeheartedly!

 

I arm them on Sunday! I'm heading out for the day and a night but I'll get back to this!

 

Ok...I said I was not going to respond. however, I wanted to agree with Tiffany on her assessment that with Jesus some of the OT was overridden. THAt is exactly right. Jesus became the sacrifice and the age of grace began. We no longer had to sacrifice animals nor could we "loose" our salvation.

For instance, you pick up a letter written to your cousin by your uncle. The uncle bequeaths his estate to the cousin but in that letter gives awesome advice. There is no mistaking that you are NOT to get the estate but that you CAN benefit from the advice given. Some of the bible is written in the same manner. Look at the first verse in the beginning of the books...most will say who this book is addresses as far as doctrine is concerned. This does not discount ANY of the Word just offers a better understanding.

Ok...I will not promise to NOT respond anymore. LOL. However, I will be more careful in what I respond to and if this thread gets to a point that the Word is reduced to dribble or misheard communication than I have to depart because that dishonors a Holy God.

HOwever, I am curious and no one seemed to answer: How can you rest securely in your salvation if you believe the Bible is in error?

 

How can you be guaranteed that the bible is 100% the only true answer out there? How can you be sure that maybe the Buddhists aren't the ones with the right religion?

I don't feel there is any one right religion. Each religion is right to it's followers.

My hubby is Native American. The Native American's didn't live by the bible.. do you think they all are in hell because they weren't saved? My family lives more to the beliefs of my husbands ancestors. We believe we are meant to be good people. We try to care for our earth, we try to respect other people and the world around us.

I don't feel you will be judged on judgment day by how well you knew the bible or by how well you followed the laws set forth by it. I feel you will be judged by what is in your heart. You can be the worlds most knowledgeable bible scholar and still be a hypocrite and not be pure of heart.

 

I'm going to add my comments inside of Sommer's so that I can comment directly on her questions! (Sorry, Ava! You will excuse me if I use NIV and not KJ!!!) I am going to let you know where I've added!

 

But Jackie.. you just proved one thing.. that the bible is what you put your faith in.. but do you think that those who follow that Koran are wrong? How about those who follow the Torah? To them they are right and you are wrong.

 

Yes, I believe those who follow the Koran are wrong. They believe they can work their way to paradise, by doing what the Koran says. It can't be done, no more than a Christian can get to heaven by "obeying all" the Bible. There is probably a lot of good wisdom in the Koran, good advice on how to live your life. But at some point, you're going to mess up. And when you do, the Koran provides NOTHING to take away your screw-ups, just that you try harder.

That's where the Bible is different. As Christians, we recognize that we CANNOT keep God's perfect law. For all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. Romans 3:23 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumbles on one point, he is guilty of all. James 2:10 But we don't have to, because the blood of Christ on the cross has COVERED those sins. When we accept Christ, God no longer sees those sins. They are wiped out and we have a full pardon. That's called GRACE. It's NOTHING we have done, but rather what Christ has done FOR us.

As far as the Torah goes, it is the first five books of the Old Testament. Yes, it IS accurate, because it is the Word of God. But again, following the Torah gets you nowhere. Anyone who looks for salvation through THEIR OWN ABILITY to keep God's Law is going to fail. The whole reason the Law was given was to show us our INABILITY to keep it, and how badly we fail when in comparison to a holy God. It shows us our need for a Savior. So once again, we are back to Christ's death and provision for our sins.

 

"Discussing" (read: trying to convince that you are correct) the issue of Bible inerrency with a non-Christian is a waste of time. I don't mean that rudely or anything. It's not a slam against the non-Christian or the Christian involved (and I'm not talking about anyone in particular here). If they have no faith in the author, they won't have faith in the book.

IMO, if you are a Christian do not believe in inerrency, then there's a good chance you're crazy. After all, if some of the account is incorrect, what's to say that all of it is? And if you base your salvation on stories that could, in fact, be incorrect, how wise is that? (yes, I'm being a little cheeky here)

Paul wrote a great deal of the New Testament. The part of the book that outlines our salvation through Christ. And he said in 2 Timothy 3:16 that all scripture is given divinely by God. If this is not the case than he was basing ALL of conclusions about Christ and salvation on a lie. And if he was basing his writings on a lie, how can anything he concluded be true?

Paul says in Romans 4:25 that Christ was raised from the dead for our salvation. How does he know that? Well, he heard it from the men (and women) who were spreading the gospel. Which was originated with the disciples. So yeah, it's a hand-me-down-story, but it's the entire basis of salvation. SO either you believe that God is capable of divinely guiding His word to stay in tact, or you believe the Bible is a game of telephone and none of it can be trusted.

Moving on to something else entirely... back to the idea of submission.....

I submit to my husband as the authority in my home. Often he defers to my judgment, but as another poster said, he still made the final decision to choose my decision.

There are rare times where I don't agree with his choices. But I go along anyhow. He never just puts his foot down and won't let me have my say. He listens, then decides. I may not like it, but I go along. Why? Because my loving Creator designed the system to work like this.

If you want to nitpick, we are all supposed to submit to each other. Ephesians 5: 21 commands us to submit to each other.

Honestly, I think the husband has the WAAAAY harder assignment from the Lord. All I have to do is submit to him. But he has to love me as Christ loved the church: completely, unselfishly, and to the point of sacrificing himself for me. WOW. Talk about a tough act. Knowing that my husband is called to such a task makes it a whole lot easier for me to muster the occasional "yes dear".

The only time he has ever just said "no" to something without discussion was when I wanted to get a dog. He was working nights and I knew I'd feel safer with a dog in the house. [My first dog saved me from rape or worse when she scared off an intruder in the middle of the night. He broke his leg in three places jumping off my balcony to get away.] I had been gently nudging for months. One day I just flat out asked. He said "no". No reason beyond "I don't want a dog". He wouldn't listen to my side. He just put his foot down as if I were a child.

I was devastated. It was the first (and only) time that he'd been that way towards me. I cried and cried. Not over the dog, but over his attitude. And you'd better believe that I let him know about it. I yelled and ranted and called him a sexist pig. Probably not the best reaction on my part...lol.

I never brought it up again. But God convicted him. A few weeks later he apologized, admitted he was wrong, and we discussed it rationally. He agreed to think on it. A month later we got a dog.

Yes, I was mad. But did I run out and get a dog to spite him? No. I followed his authority and let God deal with him (after my initial rant). God changed his heart and now we have a dog that we both love. If I'd just gone out and gotten one there would be tension over her and a little rift would have started between us.

 

Sommer, I found the scripture I was looking for in relationship to Native American culture.

For since the creation of thw world God's invisibile qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood form what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but hteir thinking became futile and their foolish hearts where darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, the became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. Romans 18-20

 

My goodness lots beign postedin this tread, I made it to the end of page 4 before my eyes gave out lol. ANyway, I jsut wanted to post my denomination.

As a kid I attended the united church, family friedns took, us my parents are not church goers. I attended there until I was 9 and got expelld for tleling my sunday school teacher she was full of crap, god wasn't real.

I didn't attend any churhces, or even believe in God for many many years. June '06 I had my 6th m/c and my friend made me got o church with her to help me cope. I ended up feeling at home and at peace the minute I walked in the door. I have been attending ever since. Nov'06 I was baptized Pentacostal, my kids were all dedicated to teh church a few weeks ago.

 

In response to the question of how do I know that other religions are also not right:

Either Jesus was who he said he was, he was a lier, or he was a lunatic cult leader. There is no other option.

In John 14:6 He says "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." We hear this verse used to discredit other faiths all the time. But what does this really mean?

It means that either He really is the only way to God, He was lying, or He was crazy.

Let's rule out lying by saying that almost no one alive would be willing to die the horrible death He did for a lie.

So that leaves right.... or crazy. Not just crazy. Crazy cult leader. I mean, He convinced thousands to follow him and believe He was the son of God. The Messiah of the Old Testament.

Anyone believes that He is a way, has to believe that He is the way.

John, the beloved of Jesus, tells us that God loved this world so much that He sent His son to die so that "whosever believeth on Him would not perish, but have everlating life". This means that if John, really one of Jesus' best friends, believed that the only way to God was through Jesus (to the point of being banished to the Aisle of Patmos) then Jesus gave a pretty compelling argument.

SO again, crazy or right.

I'm not even sure I'm making my point. I've got a screaming baby on my lap and fighting toddlers behind me. It's hard to formulate a sound theological argument under these circumstances. lol. But I pray that you get the gist. Perhaps I'll try again another day.

 

Amie, I disagree. (And no, I'm not taking this personally! I know it wasn't meant that way!) It seems to me that there are two kinds of questions for a non-believer. There are the questions that Satan puts in their mind, specifically to keep them FROM trusting Christ. Like you said, answering those questions accomplishes nothing. You will NEVER answer to their satisfaction, because they've already decided and are just using their questions as justification of their decision. But I also believe that the Holy Spirit puts questions in the mind of the non-believer, sometimes the same question Satan uses. These are honest questions, that the person really wants to understand. And the Holy Spirit uses the answers to open up the non-believer's heart. We need to have discernment to know, when asked, which it is. I don't want to waste my time with a person who just wants to argue.

 

Exactly.

And I believe he was the son on God.

I also believe that no matter how good of a person you are you will not go to Heaven unless you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and receive the salvation that is so freely given to you by God. It is clear to me that salvation through Jesus Christ is the only way to Heaven.

I totally agree that there will be many who know the BIble far better than I do that will not get to Heaven. There will always be hypocrites. But entrance into Heaven is not based on how much you know. I believe it was Jackie that said it isn't what you know it is what you do with what yuo know.

I believe that all other religions are wrong. HIndu, Budist,
whatever. How can I believe what I believe about Jesus Christ and yet think that beliefs in other Gods are okay?

I in no way think the Bible is like the game telephone. Frankly that comment was insulting to my God and his Holy Word.

It seems these days like everyone in the world is all for tolerance. Tolerance of every single thing under the sun except Christianity.

 

Man oh Man is this topic getting hot to hot for me, I think if we all don't sit back and take a deep breath on this one there are going to be alot of hard feeling and hurt ones too.

First Ladies we all are saying we are Christian, RIGHT? Well if we are, we are not to Judge, who are we to Judge only one person Judges us and that is GOD we need to respect everyones view and go from there. Everyone Believes in a different way. Like I said GOD made us all different for that reason, we can tell people what we want them to believe but we can't push it on them.. We need to be there to help them..


With that I am done on this thread..

 

Right. I've heard, although I've never researched for myself, that the Catholic church changed it to Sunday being the day to keep. I can't remember when it happened. I'm not trying to dog on Catholics or anything, just saying that's the reason I've heard for most churches now worshipping on Sunday. But like I said my church meets on Saturday, I'm Apostolic btw.


On to another subject

I also believe that Jesus is the only way. Jesus said in John 10:1 ".... I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber." John 10:9 "I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved...."

Why do I believe this is true? As someone else said, it's faith. And also, the Holy Ghost in me bears witness to the Word.

Lisa

 

Oh, Lisa, we meet on Saturday night because we currently share a building with an Apostolic church! I never knew much about them (still don't, really!), but if this congregation is typical of the Apostolic Church, they really love the Lord! We have had our socks blessed off by these people!

I was told that Christian churches meet on Sunday because it was the day Christ arose. Don't know if that's accurate, but it's what I was told! (And PLEASE don't misunderstand me and think I said that anyone who does NOT meet on a Sunday isn't a Christian!!! That is NOT what I meant by that!!!)

 

LOL, Jackie, don't worry. I'd have to be looking for a fight to think you meant that:love:

My grandfather (different denomination) had a real problem with my church meeting on Sat. The verse my grandmother cited for meeting on Sunday, is in one of the gospels (don't know it right off the top of my head) but it says that the disciples we're gathered together on the first day of the week. This is after Jesus' crucifiction and is when He appeared in their midst. So this caused me to do some searching, what I found is that in that verse it also says they were gathered behind closed doors in fear of the Jews. And then a little farther down it says they were gathered together again 8 days later (Monday?). So from this I gather that they were gathering together all the time. Also there are lots of references I think in Acts of the disciples teaching in the temple on the Sabbath.

In my opinion the reason you gave is probably a lot of the reason it was changed. BUT .... I think the Sabbath still stands and changing the day of worship was mans idea.

I don't know if the church you know is a typical Apostolic, but I'm glad your church has been blessed by them. I think my church would be called an independant church, we're not a member of any larger organization or anything, does that make sense? But there are a lot of other Apostolic churches that we fellowship with here in Texas and all over the U.S.

Lisa

 

The Catholic church did change worship to Sunday. Protestant churches followed, but without a real basis for it (from what I can tell). I know that some folks do base Sunday worship on the fact that Jesus arose on a Sunday (THE reason to worship), and I have seen others quote from the gospels about the disciples meeting on Sunday. I do think the NT frees us from the laws of the OT (We are not able to keep them and needed the sacrifice of Jesus's blood to free us from them). I read somehwere that the 4th commandment (keeping the Sabbath day holy) is the ONLY one of the 10 commandments not reiterated by Jesus in the NT. I have not researched that yet, but I found it on a biblical site explaining Sunday worship. Honor and worship should be part of our everyday lives- not only on Sat. or Sun., but we ceratinly need to be involved in corporate worship. Many churches of ALL denominations offer Sat. and Sun. worshi[p. The goal is to win people to Christ regardless of the day we choose to worship.