That's exactly what I'm saying!! I don't think ANYONE looks at abortion as a first option - it's waaayyyy down the list. Let's help those girls choose another option!
Nancy I agree with you with you girl, the abortion clinic here all I see are men and women standing around with signs and yelling at who ever goes in not helping anyone. I don't want any tomatoes thrown at me for saying this, they are rotten this time of the year. But, remember this is my opinon and I am shit. But, anyway I have to agree with Nancy about if those people would put there engery into helping these poor ladies and girls and not standing there and yelling it could be different. Also, I have never been in any of those peoples shoes so I will not say I would never do it and I will not say I will help them unless I really mean it. I have been in a really bad spot in my life it was really scarey and change me alot. But, it was different then a abortion but it was still bad, I did have alot of people come up to me and say how could you do that I wouldn't of never let that happen I would of did this or that. Well I cried and cried about it for months, years and thought hay maybe there is something wrong maybe I should of did this or that. Then I sat one day and thought how the hell do they know they were never there, they weren't in my shoes and yes its always easy to write and say things when you aren't in that person shoes.
Kris I completely agree. People can say what they will but frankly my life and the choices I make aren't anyone's business but mine and my families. My experiences are mine and no one else's. People can think my choices and experiences are their business all they want but it doesn't change the fact that they aren't.
No tomatoes from me, Kris! Your opinion is just as valuable as ours. I am 100% positive that you have not and never will see the majority of pro-lifer standing outside a building, yelling at women or girls as they walk into the building to kill their child. Those that you see are probably a very small percentage of pro-lifers. The majority of them work behind the scenes. You will probably never see their face.
planned parenthood vs. crisis pregnancy center NOOOO they are not the same, at least not in my neck of the woods. The crisis preg center (CPC) does not provide abortion nor do they refer anyone for abortion. they give info on diff. types fo abortion, they give all the alternatives, and they they help provide them with whatever they need if they decide to keep that baby. Planned Parenthood (PP) offers abortions, most of the time advocates for the abortion, and gains the profit from abortion and the baby part brokers. Look at PP gross annual income and try to tell me they arent getting rich off abortion! I am in no way saying that every employee of PP gets a big paycheck, or even that they dont care about the clients. I am sure there are sincere people there trying to help those girls, i just think they are misguided. But all the top execs. are the big winners here.
Yeah, what she said! The organizations I was refering ARE NOT in any way connected the the Planned Parenthood, who, as a "non-profit", is getting rich off of killing babies and our tax dollars!
The more I read this, the more I think it comes down to whether or not people believe that God paid a price for us and whether they believe that we belong to God or to ourselves? Personally, I do not think we belong to ourselves. Also, I agree 100% that it isn't any of OUR business! However, I do believe it is God's business. I also believe that we are called to be about God's business; sharing His message of salvation and defending His truths. So in a sense, God made it our business but for HIS glory, not for ours. This is displayed over and over in the Bible. So for me to stand by and say nothing, would be contrary to His word. I believe God's word is final and we are called to defend it in all respects; with love. In this case, I am defending a precious life. I know we differ in this area and I still believe it is my business, under God, but I respect your view even though we do not agree..:angel: I guess, I would rather have the scorn of man thinking that I am wrong for standing up for God's truths rather than stand by, and not stand up against what God deems unholy. I also want to say, this has been a very enlightening thread from both sides.
Thanks for clearing up the Planned Parenthood thing. I didn't know and now I do. Patty you brought up some excellent points!! Okay I agree that we as Christians do not belong to ourselves but to God. Okay we agree on that right? Now with that being said, I belong to God, not to you. So what I choose to do is between me and God and not me and you. God is to judge me. You are not. Let he without sin throw the first stone (or something like that). So is there differnt levels of sin or is all sin bad? Have any of you never sinned? Have any of you ever made a morally wrong choice? So who are you to tell someone else what to do? God is the only one. If he tells us abortion is wrong then it is his place to judge us an individuals as he will one day anyway. We all have to stand before him. Oh and Patty I was not refering directly to you. I used the word you as just a generalization for all people.
Tiffany, you took the words right out of my mouth, who are we to judge. Yes, God should be the only judge.
Then how can we say ANYTHING is wrong? I believe that God sets a standard in His Word. We are obliged to stand up for that standard. Otherwise, there would be anarchy. How can we tell one child not to hit his brother, unless we "judge"? How can we say that lying is wrong? Or murder? We have to be able to judge the behavior. My understanding of God's Word says that abortion is wrong. Period. The BEHAVIOR is wrong. And the person who performs the act is wrong. But (and here's the main point) I am not going around telling a person "YOU'RE GOING TO HELL BECAUSE YOU COMMITED AN ABORTION!" God knows ALL our sins. He will judge ALL our sins. And, as you so rightly pointed out, we are ALL guilty. I don't consider myself any holier than a mass murderer. I don't consider any sin you have may have committed any "worse" than any sin I've committed. (And, as said before, I also use the word "you" in a general, rather than personal, way )
I agree with what Jackie has posted. How can we say that anything is wrong if this is the standard we should live by? I completely agree that we are all sinners. Jesus came to save all of us, indeed. But if I live by the rule you are stating, then this means that God's word is wrong. We are told to uphold the truth. If I can't judge the sin as wrong, then God is wrong for telling us to do so. Either the Bible is right or it isn't. I believe it is perfect and without error. Do you believe murder is wrong? Rape? Stealing? Are you throwing a stone if you believe rape or spousal abuse is wrong? Isn't the sin or crime between the perp and God? By the standards that I am reading, it isn't our responsiblity to hold these people accountable because it is judging. I do believe we are to judge the sin, the act, but not the person. God will judge the person. Personally, I believe there is a difference in judging an act and a person spiritually. I am also wondering how many people believe an unborn baby is living? This is rhetorical by the way. The reason I wonder is because I keep hearing, not just on this board but in life, people say that it is a women's right to do what she wants but some how the life in her isn't being mentioned. I have a difficult time understanding how any person could believe an unborn child is alive, but then believe a women has a right to have that life sucked right out of her. I think I can stomach it better when people believe the baby isn't living. I still disagree with it, but it makes more sense than somebody who believes the unborn is living but stands behind killing the baby. I understand that some people do not think a unborn baby is alive because it is still relying on the mom for air, food, and sustenance. But how many people in our world depend on life support, breathing machines, or heart pumps in order to continue living day to day because their organs refuse to function on there own. Perhaps we should have their brain sucked out so they are no longer a burden on our society. On that note... I love you all and I shall return!! I have to get to piano. :love: :love: LOL
I also am very confused! I could totally understand that if a person didnt believe in life at conception, than abortion is ok, but to say yes i believe the unborn is human life and in the next breath say but it is ok for a woman to choose to take that life because it is her body just doesnt make any sense. it is like saying these are all my dogs, i bought them and if i want to mutilate and torture them then it is my business. i swear in this day and age, pets are more protected then unborn children. i just dont get it. why have any rules or laws at all then? why not just let everyone do what they want to whoever they want because it isnt our place to judge?????? give me a break, you guys all sound so sincere and sweet, but to hear those word come off this screen just gives me the goosebumps. maybe the end is nearer than i thought.
I totally agree! This is because they are very sweet and very sincere. They are as passionate as we are in what we believe. Although we do not agree and sometimes strongly disagree, they are very dear ladies and are voicing their views as hard as I am mine.
Yes, in order to learn from each other, we have to respect each other and acknowledge that each person has a right to her own ideas. I truly want to know how those with vastly differing ideas from myself are coming to their conclusions. That's one motivation behind my questions. This board is unique in that usually we can probe the "arguments," keep friends, and say "Aha! THAT's why they think the way they do!" In day-to-day life, people either don't have time for this, or maybe there would be too many tomatoes! *smiling* So, on with the discussion, and keep joining us, Momof3peas. It looks like to me that a question kind of floating around now is: At what point should the government make laws about anything?
Crystal, I'm a little concerned that you've seemed to have backed off. I hope that no one has said anything that has offended you! We do appreciate you very much, and welcome your opinion! You've had life-experiences that have helped you become who you are today, and we really value who you are and what you believe.
America That is why America is so great, because we can all have freedom of speech. Even though we dont agree, it is our right to our opinion and we are free to voice it. I do believe in my heart that all you gals, crystal included, are great and have great hearts. I am just glad to have found a group that isnt afraid to debate these tough issues and can still be friends through all the tough stuff:love:
