I think its a hard decision for a woman to make to carry a child that a man made in them by force. When you get raped you just want to wash yourself clean of that man. Unless they get on government funding which is sadly going away now for some they have a hard time raising a child alone, they are lucky if they have a loving family who will help them. You need, food, shelter, medical. Not many will hire a pregnant woman to work let alone a young girl that is pregnant. You have to consider the feeling of a young girl who was raped especially it being her first time. People that tell her to give it up for adoption want her to carry it full term and give birth which is not a peace of cake its another ordeal they have to go through along with labor pains plus still trying to get over the trauma of having been raped. Those women who were raped that carry those children to full term are so strong. The women that end up raising the kids even though they might even look like the raper are even stronger. I couldnt do that I couldnt force my daughter to do that. I couldnt force anyone else either. Sam
why not try the perfect method? If you are a women and know you do not want a child at the current time, then why not try the perfect birthcontrol method? Abstinence works perfectly and you never have to worry about a method not working! Anyway, I dont feel God gives us the right to take the life of the unborn. I follow the beliefs of the bible. I know that not everyone follows these beliefs, and that is their right, but i believe this with my whole heart. I dont want to be a bad witness, and i am sorry that i may have come off as harsh and judgemental. I in no way trying to say that i have walked in anyones shoes, but I know I would do anything for anyone in a crisis pregnancy situation, even take them in and care for them. Mamaof3peas
I have to agree with Sam, times are getting alot harder, all the goverment help is going way there is alot to look. I am not taking any side, But, I will never and I mean never tell anyone what to do, because I am not in there shoes and I don't know what they are going through.
It all comes down to whether or not you consider an unborn child alive. If so, then abortion kills that life. You can talk until you're blue in the face about child abuse, but isn't killing a child the ultimate abuse? Only, since this life hasn't lived outside its mother's body, that makes it OK? It's a big double standard, if you believe the unborn is alive. And if you DON'T consider that child a life, then any argument I or anyone else has will be totally irrelevent.
Why is it ok to kill just because you cant hear them scream? Why is it different to kill if the head is out? That is what I struggle with. Regardless of how this person came to be, they simple ARE. And it is not their fault that they exist. If we wait till they are born and then slice the throat, is that the same? I don't get it. I am a woman, I was 15 once. And I swear, everyone had a turn at trying to get at me, from a young age and some succeeded. But that doesn't change the facts that we are killing someone. Whne they say that they have to abort to save the mother's life, why is it tat the induce delivery? If she can survive the induced delivery, so that they can snap the back on the skull.... why can't the baby just be born?
I keep seeing y'all try to point out that fact that to Abort kills. From what I am seeing here on the posts I have not heard anyone disagree with that thought. This is what I see.... The issue seems to me with it coming to vote again is weather to make it a personal choice, do we have free will to make a good or bad decision on our own or have the Government and Majority make it for you. I was leaning more towards Pro Choice when this conversation started but I have to say I am no longer leaning I am more ProChoice more then ever now. I prayed on this and I have decided I am doing more research on what they actually do at these clinics and I am going to write my congressman. I am hoping they put some more rules on it. Like making it madintory that they seek a counselor before undergoing, making sure they know they have other choices and have those people there with them that can help them lean towards adoption, making sure parents know about it if underage, making it harder for them to just do a walk in and walk out they really, really need to make sure they think on it so I hope they have to have days to decide. I have come to the conclusion that I can help someone try to save a child inside the clinics making sure they have options then being outside with a sign protesting and screaming at them that they are sinners. Who do you think the young girl whos considering abortion will listen too more? Sam
That's exactly what my thought process is! I don't question that those babies are babies - I know mine were from the time they were little bitty beans inside me. But I don't think any amount of legislation is going to change the fact that girls will get the abortion if they want it and feel they need it. We can only change things if we are there to love and care for those girls - to support them in their hour (or months or years) of need. And yet I don't see people doing that - I see people standing on the street corner holding signs and shouting and hollering. If more people would put their time and energy into actually BEING THERE for those girls - if they would take the time to hold her hand and hug her and let her know she has a home to turn to (and truly MEAN it!!) some of the abortions can be avoided. I'm not fooling myself into thinking we can prevent them all - that simply ain't gonna happen. But I just don't see what good standing outside a clinic screaming and shouting is going to do. In other words - bag the legal battle and work where it will help. That's what I see anyway!!
But see, how can it be a personal choice to kill someone? Murder is immoral, and biblicaly banned... But no one says we are trying to push biblical laws on them when we capture and punish murderers... at least if you have breathed once. The same argument would say that Honor Killings, popular in the middle east would be ok, because it is the families, very personal choice and how sad it is that they have to make that choice.... to kill a teen daughter who has shamed the family... She would bring shame to them, remind them everyday that she is damaged, ruin the family name, etc.... And yet, we do not agree with that being ok, in America... No, we tell people with that belief that they are immensely mentally disturbed to think that is ok..... ...to kill someone for YOUR convenience. Even if that inconvenience is shame. Now, of course no one wants to say they ave the answers. I certainly do not have the answers. But to answer the original question.... I believe it is a political issue, because laws are political issues and this "Personal choice" for many of us is tantamount to Honor Killings, ,,, just wrong.
I sooo totally agree with you... It is worthless.. It makes them feel better I think... Although I count myself as pro life, I have never screamed at anyone and could not imagine doing so. I do not have the answers, but this discussion is a very insightful one, for sure!
I do see them doing that. The Crisis Pregnancy Centers DO all that. They provide clothes, medical care, counseling, housing if necessary. They come along side these women. If they want to give up the baby for adoption, they help with that. If they decide to keep it, they can help with that. They church Marylyn and I attended had several families that "adopted" young, pregnant ladies through a center. They mentored them as long as necessary.
Jackie these Crisis Pregnancy Centers are they in every state? Are they gov funded or private? They sound really good. Sam
I believe all states have them, but I would guess that they might be fewer in rural areas. The funding comes primarily from private sources, but they could get government funding and I wouldn't know that. Also, the ones in Central Ohio, while not a United Way organization, can get United Way funding if it is specified on the donor card that they money goes to the Pregnancy Decision Health Center. Any Right to Life organization can put a person in touch with one.
Good point. There are a lot of people out there walking the talk, so to speak. I guess I just get frustrated at all the people who do stand around screaming at those young, terrified girls - and don't do anything to help them. If every one of the people standing there would "adopt" one girl and help her by loving and supporting her THROUGHOUT her pregnancy, then maybe - just maybe - it could make a difference. But standing there on the street corner or in front of a clinic? It seems to me like all it does is hurt.
How could legislation not help? I get that if a girl feels that is her only option (abortion) that she will always find a way to it, but if their are laws making it illegal and if the penalties for the DOCTERS are very harsh, than I do believe their would be less abortions. Im not at all sure whether punishments should be on the girls who would choose an illegal abortion? Just like the partial birth abortion ban, I am thankful that the supreme court finally ruled that it was constitutional. Thats not to say that there will never be one again, but I think the doctors performing these abortions will think long and hard before they do it. there will never be a quick fix for this problem. no one thinks that here. i have been involved in some picketing, but we were not making any noise we were to be praying that are witness were to raise awareness to those who might not think about this issue as important. We have been screamed at and flipped off you wouldnt believe the things that have been said to us. And all we are doing is standing quietly holding non-offending signs, like stop abortion or God is the giver and taker of life. The prayer meetings at the clinic are quiet and peaceful here. We even have a van that has set up an ultrasound machine for any of those girls who want to see whats inside them before making this decision, and it has opened many eyes. No one person can do it all. I only have so much money to give to the crisis pregnancy center here, and only so much time i can volunteer, but i try my best to help those girls, and if the Lord ever brought a girl to me that needed a place to stay and someone to love her through this i would be all for that. i get tired of everyone acting like all prolifers are bad judgemental people who wouldnt do anything of real help for someone in need. if you were pregnant and were attacked and the baby was killed wouldnt you want justice? so why is it your decision whether a human should die? I just will never understand. i believe everyone here is sincere in their belief in the life of the unborn, but why cant we see that you dont have to believe there is only one way to help? You can be a helper of those girls in every day life and vote prolife and back up prolife legislatioin and not be a bad person. Something no one has brought up yet is the fact that the orgs that benefit from abortions like planned parenthood are selling baby parts for big bucks. the older the baby the better. if you dont believe me do some deep research and you will see that it is true. how sad that our country has come to a point where people can make money off other girls sorrows.
I just dont think its going to happen it being illegal again. As some one pointed out in a earlier post they will find a way even if they do ban it and there will be butcher doctors in the dark just as before and even more of them in this time and age. Some people will do anything to make a buck even pretend to be a doctor. At least at the clinics they are open and they can offer options to the girls to let them have the option of adoption. I can only see and hope for more improvements like more of those clinics that Jackie said were out there. More stricter rules this is what is going to decline the rate of abortion EDUCATION in knowing there is more options out there for them that they dont have to be alone. Sam
If pro-life and pro-choice forces could get together on that I imagine there would be more of a difference made then any number of marches and/or legislation. Personally, I could never support making abortions illeagal. But sheesh, I could sit down with any of you women opposed to abortion and work on some community strategy to educate girls about sex and family and means of supporting them when they get into a situation where they need it.
Here I'm gone for a day picking apples, and three more pages in this discussion have appeared! I see that our point of divergence is not based upon when human life begins, as I had previously thought. Hmmm... Interesting... I appreciate those who spoke (including the link to Christian policemen) to the questions that others and I have raised. The direction this discussion has taken, therefore, has formed another set of questions in my mind: (Not claiming to have the answers, myself.) Moving on now, upon our agreement that the creation in the womb is a person, what determines the rights or the non-rights of that person? I am reminded of the slaves, who were forbidden to learn to read, later forbidden to vote, and even in the census, were only counted as partial persons. For too long, they were considered property of their owners. Are babies, like slaves, considered to be the property of someone else, in this case, their mothers? Do they have fewer rights to life if they were forced upon her? Or if their very existance and growth threaten her life? If the little one, as we agree, is a person, then would killing him or her erase the first crime of how the baby arrived on the scene? And who establishes these rules? I contend that it is a civil rights issue as well as a religious and moral one. And maybe, since we women can sit down and talk about it as friends, maybe someday as a country we'll be able to do the same!
I am confused about something. Some of you, okay well actuall it was mammaof3peas, keeps saying that planned parenthood benefits from abortions. Is planned parenthood the same thing as the pregnancy crisis center????? If it is then I totally disagree. I have utilized the crisis center and they do not at all in any way encourage abortion at all. In fact they will give you clothing, classes, ultrasounds and Bibles for FREE! And they pray with you. In fatc I have a Bible from them on my shelf now. If they are two totally different things someone let me know please because in that case I know nothing at all about planned parenthood.
