Maybe I'm going to sound like an absolute dork here, but would someone explain the whole pro-life/pro-choice issue to me? I understand what it is, but I just don't see why it consumes so many people's lives. What I mean by that is this: women have been getting abortions for thousands of years. They've stuck hangars up into themselves, they've hacked their bellies apart, etc.. Some women just really, really, REALLY don't want to have a baby. Is changing a law going to make any difference in that? I honestly don't see how this is a politcal issue at all - it seems to me like an issue of morality. If we could somehow make those girls feel safe and secure, they wouldn't want to abort their child. Does it really matter if abortion is legal or not? I don't mean to start a war here or anything, but I honestly don't "get" the whole "I vote pro-life" or "I vote pro-choice" thing. It makes no sense to me whatsoever. Thanks for your help here!
mhop just my opinion, but i do always vote prolife. here is my reasoning. i understand the whole argument that if a women wants abortion she will find a way legal or not to do it, but here is why i "vote" prolife. i dont want my tax dollars supporting people that benefit from abortions ie planned parenthood which they do. they get a lot of money each year from taxpayers pockets. second but most important, is that i believe that the unborn life is just that , a life. it is innocent, cant defend itself and i believe the Lord wants us to defend the defenseless. i had a pregnancy go about half way through and they end for no reason. i had to be induced and give birth to that baby. and although i was only 20 weeks along, that baby was a perfect baby. just little. i think if you really want to understand this issue, the only thing you would have to do is look at pictures of aborted babies. im sorry to have to say this, but once youve seen a baby torn up like that and realize that many people in the industry gain big bucks from that destruction you would never again not understand why some of us are so passionate about this issue. i dont want to sound mean or mad. im not at all, i just know this issue is near and dear to my heart and i want to educate as many people as possibe.
Thanks so much for your response! I do understand what they do to the babies, and I do know they are babies. I absolutely fell in love iwth my twins when they were only little peanuts in my belly. But will it make a difference to enter the political realm? Wouldn't all that time and energy be better spent giving that time to a teenaged girl who finds herself pregnant? Wouldn't that do more to help the situation than standing on a street corner with signs or lobbying politicians or whatever? I just don't get the whole political thing the pro-choice/pro-life issue has become.
I was just having this conversation the other day. For me, I realize that no presidential candidate is going to be able to overturn Roe V. Wade. However, they can choose the Supreme Court. It's about whether parents need to be notified, whether staff help a baby who survives, how old that fetus can be, procedures. I cannot is good conscience vote for a person who has no regard for life.
To me, we have told so many women that sex has NO consequences. They seem to think that abortion is a quick, easy solution. As a result, the number of abortions have skyrocketed. I've heard a woman who use to work at an abortion clinic talk. she says that her clinic's GOAL was a certain number of abortions per year, and that they would give teens BC that they KNEW the girls wouldn't follow. Yet the girls thought they were "safe", so their sexual activity increased (and so did abortions). To me, voting for someone who supports abortion is approving of the taking of an innocent life. That's the bottom line.
I see it like this. Everyone wants choices, they don't want the government to tell them what to do, unless these choices conflict against ones own moral values. Yes we need laws to protect (ie: crime laws etc...) But honestly I don't think that government should stand in one's way to make personal choices (for our bodies or for whom we love)
Okay, this is a very tricky issue. Yes women have had abortions for many many years and yes, regardless of the legality of it, they will probably still continue. I agree what roe v wade will probably never be overturned but may be changed. I feel (and this is my humble opinion) that the government should not fund anything like clinics or the planned parenthood. I believe under-aged girls SHOULD HAVE TO get parental permission, that shouldn't be a question. I believe that our current laws on abortion make it way too easy and women (and young girls) see it as an easy birth control. I knew of one girl that I hung out with after high school. She went on to have 4 or 5 abortions because she kept getting pregnant, she was using it as an after the fact birth control. I think that is completely wrong. I believe that the laws make it seem as if the taking of life is an everyday, okay, acceptable thing and it's not.
I really like this response. Also, on the issue at hand...I work in the lab at the hospital. I have seen an aborted fetus. It's not pretty, and it's painful to see. By the time a woman finds out they are pregnant, the baby usually already has a heartbeat as well. This is just me, but I personally would feel like I was turning my back on God by not standing up for what He would believe was trust and right. That is just my view. Whether or not it really would have an effect at the polls, doesn't matter to me. It's what I stand up for myself and how I stay true to my beliefs that is important, whether it changes the world or not.
Well I have seen ALL sides of it. Believe me when a women has an abortion MOST think about every option then choose what is best for them at that moment and in the future. Most abortion clinics DO NOT have quotas. I volunteered at abortion clinics, the 12 I did volunteer at had counseling beforehand, gave the women options ( adoption, keeping the child or abortion), asked multiple times if she really wanted to do this and even up to the last minute turn people away because they knew that the abortion was not the womans idea ,she was doing it for some else. They were compassionate people, every single clinic had amazing staff and a gentle environment. As for Planned Parenthood...well some of them should not counsel teens BUT some are very open to all options and really listen to these teens. They really help. I know a woman personally that had an abortion ( at 19), gave one child up for adoption ( at 17), keep one child ( at 22) and had another taken away at a custody battle ( at 25). The worse for her was the adoption and the lost custody. Everyday, every year it ripes her heart out, not the abortion but the living she gave up. Now I know quite a few women who think abortion is birth control. That is just wrong, there are other ways to prevent pregnancy. I believe they do this in part because the lifestyle they choose to live and their upbringing ( either fear of telling parents because they would be forced to keep the child or give it up). A woman I know very well was shocked to learn she was pregnant ( at 19). She used birth control and a condom. Condom broke, she is pregnant, she tells her boyfriend, he becomes enraged, beats her up pretty bad all because she is pregnant and it will mess up his plans in life. She leaves him, lives a minimium wage job, parents are divorced and broke, she has no insurance. She decides abortion she is her best option at that moment. Not adoption ( seen friends do that, it scarred them), doesn't want to keep the child because that would mean the father would be in the picture and she didn't want to put the child through that, so she goes with plan C, abortion. Doesn't look back and knows it was right for her. My best friend had to have an abortion right away because the fetus was poisoning her, she was turned away by 6 hospitals!!! She had to go 700 miles away from home to find a hospital that would help her. Imagine that you know you are slowly being poisoned, you have a child and husband at home and no hospitals that will help you because either they are a religious hospital ( ie Catholic or Methodist) or its againist their ethics code!! No problem ..we rather you die then this fetus, forget you have a family waiting for you at home!! I have seen first hand when a teen has told her parents she is pregnant and the parents said " Well you are giving it up for adoption and we know a great couple who will take it" She protested and they said either she gives it to this couple or she gets kicked out of the house! Know 13 years later , family holidays are quite uncomfortable for her because she is forced to see this child everytime. What is worse, she has an 8 year that she kept and she can't even tell him thats his sister becasue the couple that has her daughter doesn't want the daughter to know she was adopted! This really messed with her head. She wanted an abortion but the parents were againist it so in order to change her mind they hung 10 posters of aborted fetus' outside her bedroom door!! Then she said that she wanted to keep the child, they said no we knows what is best and it is this couple. She is one of the most messed up people you would ever meet because of all of this. All that being said I am very pro-choice ( like you didn'tknow that already)!!! I believe it is up to the woman to decide. You don't know the stories behind some of these women, the reasons why the came to this decision! All of these examples are only a fraction of what I know when it comes to pro-life or pro-choice. That is why it is not my place to tell these women what to do, I listen, give them options, we go through them and I hold their hand no matter what they do. Its between them and their God ( if they have one) not me!!
Fair warning up front, I'm fairly rabid on this issue I believe with all my heart that abortion is murder. Pure and simple it is killing a child, no ifs ands or buts. I base it on the God's word, not on personal opinion of when "life" starts or whether pregnancy is convenient. That being said, to answer the original question, here is why I believe that if you are against abortion, you should vote that way: for many, myself included, abortion is a moral issue. It is on the same moral plane as murder, rape, pedophilia, etc. We have laws to protect people from those crimes and we do NOT say to ourselves "well, people have been murdering since Cain and Abel, they will still do it whether or not we have a law, so what's the point?". I have one single issue that will decide who I vote for in any election and that is whether they are pro-life or pro-abortion (I refuse to pretty it up and call it a choice). What it comes down to for me is do I want to stand before God and try to explain why I voted for someone who would legalize the mass slaughter of our children just because I didn't want to pay a few more taxes? Was my comfort in life more important than a life itself? No way, I've got a lot of sin to account for, I won't add that one to it. Sorry, told you this one riles me up
I am thinking along the lines of Aball. People don't want the government telling them what they can and can not do unless it is in direct agreement with what they already believe. I do not agree with abortion. I think it is morally wrong. Too many people use it as an after the fact oops I screwed up quick fix. BUT..... I don't believe the government officials should have the right to tell individual women what they can or can not do with their bodies. To say that the only issue that will make up your mind in a election is whether they are pro choice or pro life is pretty crazy to me. I mean there are other things going on out there than to worry about whether or not someone you don't know terminates her pregnancy. So many more issues affect me personally than this one issue. We all have our opinions and we aren't going to change each others minds. We all know that here right? So while I dont' agree with abortion, I also don't agree with the government being in charge of my body.
aball and crystalCA i still cant believe it (a little brutal) How can you say it is a womans choice to have an abortion? Have you seen pictures of aborted babies? That is a life, so your pretty much saying if it makes our life easier we should be able to go out and cut anyone, just so our life is easier? And crystalCA, the girl who always used protection got pregnant and knew that abortion was best option!!! OH MY. She couldnt give it up for adoption because it would scar her for life??????That is why adoption is a selfless act. It isnt done to make you feel better, it is done to give that baby a chance at a decent life. But obviously you dont believe that they are a life? Is that it? You dont feel like the unborn are alive. What about all the babies born through botched abortions that are thrown in a trash can to die, or put in a sink of water to drown, or bundled up in towel to sufficate? Dont you dare tell me that that doesnt happen!!!! So although you may want to make yourself feel better by justifying it, it is not justified. I do not hate women who have abortions, but i feel they are uneducated about what they are doing. And im sorry but abortion does have emotional side effects later on. i realize giving up a baby for adoption would be extremely hard. i dont know that i could do it. but abortion being better ?? not for that baby that gets chopped up huh? or a needle shoved in there home with a solution that will burn them from the inside out, or the one who gets flipped around feet first pulled halfway our and then gets their brains sucked out. Wow!! What a great life or should i say end to such. Sorry i hate to be so honest here but how else can you explain what happens to those babies. I dont want my hard earned money going towards those murders. i want a president who will do everything in his power to stop these atrocities. Thank God for Bush! He banned partial-birth abortions, something obama voted to allow. Bush may have his faults but he has tried to stand up for the unborn!! and what about our minors? you cant take a tylenol at school without a written note, but you can go have a major medical procedure with out parental consent or notification? We had a teenager die here a year ago because she had an abortion and her parents didn't know and she went to er and didnt tell them what she had done and they couldnt save her. So you tell me its not killing people!! Well, there I go again on my soap box. And AMEN to JENPOOH AUTUMNLEAVEZ JACKIE LOREAL and BRODYSMOM2! Finally someone stands up for those babies!! Please remember to vote Nov 4th.
Don't worry, lots of people think I'm nuts, starting with my stepdaughter:lol: I suppose it seems to be a very narrow view and not taking into account the big picture but this is my perspective: because I believe that abortion is murder, it is the absolute most important issue in an election for me. Just about all the other issues (and I'm not naive, and I do try to keep up with what's going on) have to do with human COMFORT. How many taxes are we paying, how much does our gas cost, is our mortgage getting paid, not to mention our nation's defense and military issues. I rely on the sovereignty of God to provide me with the things I need to glorify Him in this life. That's my job, to glorify God. Whether or not I have to live a more frugal life because of my taxes, or whether life is "hard" for me, isn't the issue. What I do believe emphatically, is that if I think that our nation is allowing something that I believe to be an abomination in God's eyes, I have a responsibility to at least not vote for the people who will allow it to continue. That is the big picture to me. Will it glorify God for me to vote for someone that I believe to be legalizing a sin? Why does it matter that it's someone else commiting the sin, will that let me off the hook for my part in whether or not it became legal to commit the sin? I understand that we are coming from different views, I'm just hoping to explain my perspective on it. It's not crazy to me to put something like this at the top of my issues list, it's crazy to me to put anything else above it, lol. Think of all the issues that are being batted around these days...and then really think about how many of them are just for our own selfish comfort or ego when it really comes down to it. Which issue does God care about more, abortion or mortgage lender oversight? That's my only scale :love:
I almost always vote republican because abortion is hte most important issue to me. Because, unlike most other political platforms, it violates a commandment. I think the fact that we have legalized the murder of innocent children is one of the sign of the times. I also believe that women have a choice. They have a choice to have sex or not to have sex. They have a choice to use birth control or not to use birth control. Abortion is NOT birth control. It is murder. A baby's heart starts beating weeks before they are typically aborted. I do believe that abortion is a consideration in women who are pregnant from rape or incest, or whose lives are endangered by the pregnancies. These make up less than half a percent of the 40 million or so abortions performed each year.
As much as we are in agreement about abortion on the whole, I do think a few of your remarks were a bit harsh towards Amy and Crystal. Please be kind, we still need to use a soft tongue, esp. on such a touchy subject. Not everyone sees the same side of the issue, even if those same people share the same faith.
You obviously don't like it when someone disagrees with you. Keep in mind that not everyone believes the same thing you do. You need to chill out a bit. People who have different opinions have just as much right as you to voice them.
I'm just going to say a few things and leave it at that ( maybe, unless I get called out again). This is something that I do not openly tell people about. Only a few close friends and family know about this. 1.) The first story...that is MY MOTHER. To hear her cry all the time about her children she gave birth to but had to give up.....it was heart wrenching!!! Still is. 2.) The second..the girl on birth control ( used properly , never missed a pill, took them on time) and a condom......that was ME!!! That choice was very hard but it was the BEST CHOICE for me. Did I mention I had to go through a crowd of 300 protesters the day I was to have an abortion??? Posters, children screaming at you, women weeping and praying to God to stop you!! I looked at one of those women, the one weeping and praying , telling me to choose adoption, I said..."Will you give my baby a home? Well you raise it and give me shelter and help me?? No I didn't think so..you will care for me until I have this child and then slowly get rid of me on the street. I've seen first hand so don't tell me you will help". NOT ONE PERSON could honestly say they would help me, shelter me, cloth me , feed for the next 7 months or take me as one of their own. All I got was silence. 3.) The story of the woman trying to find a hospital...she is still very bitter that they would have her die before the baby. I don't need to say anymore about that. 4.) The story about the teen with the parents that told she HAD to adopt...thats my SISTER IN LAW. She still has nightmares that she kidnaps her daughter and runs away with her and her son. She freaked out at her grandfathers funeral because the adoptive parents came to the funeral with her daughter , sit next to her and her son and couldn't even tell her she was her mother. And everyone ( except my dh and I) pretended that nothing was wrong with this and that her feelings meant nothing!!! This is a gray issue for everyone. Either you call this murder, but its o.k if its rape or incest or mothers life is a stake . But isn't the baby still dead because of all of the reasons you just deemed O.K?? You can't have it both ways! Murder is murder is it not ? Or wonder if it is your daughter that is raped, she is 10 or 12 years old, she becomes pregnant BUT you are pro-life under all circumstances...will you have her bring a baby to full term and either adopt the baby or have her keep it?? I don't want to change peoples minds on this issue...its personal for everyone BUT I want people to see that there is more to this then hoochie mamas getting yearly abortions. These are women who have thought long and hard about this choice and I wanted them to have an adovcate on their side when they choose this. That is why I volunteered, its to help the women that live with this choice. I wouldn't have changed the path I took for anything. It lead me to where I am today. I have made peace with this choice, actually the only time I remember I did this is at election time because it is such a hot button issue and I am strongly pro-choice. There are choices in life, in this abortion issue. Adoption, keeping the baby or ending a pregnancy....but these women are humans also and they made a choice on what was best for THEM, because they are the ones that have to either raise the baby somehow alone ( in most cases) or give the child up for adoption but giving birth to that child and seeing it go somewhere else or abortion, cry, carry on and live your life differently becasue all 3 options change you.
Crystal that was very brave of you to share your story. That is exactly why I am prochoice. I have no idea what goes on in the lives of others. I don't walk daily in anyones shoes but mine. So how am I to tell someone else that they are wrong and what I believe is the only way and the right way? I certainly would not want anyone to tell me I had no choice. I think the original poster just wanted to know why it is even an issue at all in governmental elections. I know she didn't want to start a fight and it would be nice if it didn't go that route. Anytime there is a hot buttom issue like this there will be many views. All of which are valid and we all have different reasons for believing what we believe. I hope nobody else gets called out like you did Crystal but you handled it really well. Man if I called out everyone on here I didn't agree with I'd get kicked off real quick.
That's how I feel. On this whole debate what I really wish is that people would stop looking at our different opinions and come together on how to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place. I suspect we DON'T do that because it would be a whole lot harder then tacking up pictures of aborted fetuses or calling pro-life people misogynists. It would be a lot of hard work where compromises wound HAVE to be made. Unless people commit to that, it's going to be the same back and forth for a long time.
